Better coach: Mike Tomlin or Bill Belichick?

[RaynorShyne]

Belichick. Tomlin needs to be a little bit more disciplined. ... Man, I've seen Tom Brady running to a meeting scared to be late." — @jharrison9292

"The coaching [in New England] is better to be honest with you," Harrison told Cowherd. "The plans they put together are better. And they don't ask their players to do anything that's outside of the realm of what they feel their capabilities are."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000941062/article/james-harrison-tom-brady-is-the-goat-qb

[Cali-Steeler]

You might want to change your head line... It sounds more like your asking us a question rather then the article itself.



Link here as well > http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24143...isciplined

[RaynorShyne]

You might want to change your head line... It sounds more like your asking us a question rather then the article itself.



 Link  here as well >   http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24143...isciplined

Sure - It can be a question also :-)   However I think I know the universal response 

[Rollers]

HE's the best coach in football. So yes he's better than Tomlin. It was interesting reading the critique by Harrison. Explains a lot

[Cali-Steeler]

I always thrived on our defenses in the past. I just don't see why from 2010 on we don't have a good defense in place by now. Don't get me wrong, the Steeler D is up and coming.
But other coach's (Cowher included) would have fixed this thing by now. I mean 8 years! How friggen long does it take to draft and or get other Veteran players? Good coaches find ways and talent.

[RaynorShyne]

I always thrived on our defenses in the past. I just don't see why from 2010 on we don't have a good defense in place by now. Don't get me wrong, the Steeler D is up and coming.
But other coach's (Cowher included) would have fixed this thing by now. I mean 8 years! How friggen long does it take to draft and or get other Veteran players? Good coaches find ways and talent.

Noll took a perennial looser (1-13 in 1969) and had them 11-3 within three years.

[Rollers]

I always thrived on our defenses in the past. I just don't see why from 2010 on we don't have a good defense in place by now. Don't get me wrong, the Steeler D is up and coming.
But other coach's (Cowher included) would have fixed this thing by now. I mean 8 years! How friggen long does it take to draft and or get other Veteran players? Good coaches find ways and talent.

Noll took a perennial looser (1-13 in 1969) and had them 11-3 within three years.

back then the draft timing favored the teams that did a great job scouting.  Now there is so much time between the end of the year and the draft that almost no one slips through unnoticed.  Shame really.

[sandfan]

Belicheat had Brady in New England for most of his time there. His NE win record is 73%. Add in his time in Cleveland, 50%, and his overall winning percentage is 71.8.

Tomlin has had a hall of fame QB every year, save injury time, and has an overall winning percentage of 65.9. Simple math is not the entire story but it provides a directional view of which coach is better.

[mcmillenandwife]

Belichick. Tomlin needs to be a little bit more disciplined. ... Man, I've seen Tom Brady running to a meeting scared to be late." — @jharrison9292

I love James Harrison. I do. Not saying he's wrong about who's better and the need for more discipline.

But I wonder if it occurred to Debo that perhaps Brady runs to make a meeting on time because he's a responsible teammate and a leader who is personally dedicated to his craft? I seriously doubt it has anything to do with "fear" of Belichick. Unlike Debo, who was reportedly intentionally late to meetings while he was pouting in Pittsburgh, Brady does his job and makes it a priority to set a good example for teammates by showing up on time. The mark of a leader.

Just puttin' it out there.

[Rollers]

Belichick. Tomlin needs to be a little bit more disciplined. ... Man, I've seen Tom Brady running to a meeting scared to be late." — @jharrison9292

I love James Harrison. I do. Not saying he's wrong about who's better and the need for more discipline.

But I wonder if it occurred to Debo that perhaps Brady runs to make a meeting on time because he's a responsible teammate and a leader who is personally dedicated to his craft? I seriously doubt it has anything to do with "fear" of Belichick. Unlike Debo, who was reportedly intentionally late to meetings while he was pouting in Pittsburgh, Brady does his job and makes it a priority to set a good example for teammates by showing up on time. The mark of a leader.

Just puttin' it out there.

while I agree with you there are some issues that need addressed.  How hard is it to realize the Tight End is KILLING you in the second half and it might be a good idea to double cover that guy?  My wife asked me why he was running open all the time.  Not a single adjustment.  Looking from the outside it's always tough.  But it's hard to believe that with the talent on this team we can't win a playoff game at home.  Or we go on the road to Denver and give up a ton of points to Tebow?  There is something wrong Tim.  Yeah the regular season D stats weren't that bad.  Need a play though?  This D isn't going to give you one.  Stop the run?  Not when it counts.  That's coaching.  Tomlin has been unable to get these guys to play their responsibilities.  Wasn't it one of our D linemen that said guys weren't covering their areas?  Poor angles on tackling?  You think Belichick puts up with that?  I dunno what to make of Tomlin over all.  I hate coaches that consistently put up winning seasons and then crap out of the playoffs quickly.  The Rooneys will NEVER fire Tomlin for a host of reasons and he probably doesn't deserve it at this time based on his record.  But I sure would like to Ben get another ring while I'm alive.  Tomlin seems overmatched to me and while he's definitely a player's coach sometimes that's not the best measurement.  So I guess getting to the playoffs if first if you want to win a superbowl.  I get that.  But the way this team plays in the playoffs is discouraging.  That's all

[RaynorShyne]

Belichick. Tomlin needs to be a little bit more disciplined. ... Man, I've seen Tom Brady running to a meeting scared to be late." — @jharrison9292

I love James Harrison. I do. Not saying he's wrong about who's better and the need for more discipline.

But I wonder if it occurred to Debo that perhaps Brady runs to make a meeting on time because he's a responsible teammate and a leader who is personally dedicated to his craft? I seriously doubt it has anything to do with "fear" of Belichick. Unlike Debo, who was reportedly intentionally late to meetings while he was pouting in Pittsburgh, Brady does his job and makes it a priority to set a good example for teammates by showing up on time. The mark of a leader.

Just puttin' it out there.

while I agree with you there are some issues that need addressed.  How hard is it to realize the Tight End is KILLING you in the second half and it might be a good idea to double cover that guy?  My wife asked me why he was running open all the time.  Not a single adjustment.  Looking from the outside it's always tough.  But it's hard to believe that with the talent on this team we can't win a playoff game at home.  Or we go on the road to Denver and give up a ton of points to Tebow?  There is something wrong Tim.  Yeah the regular season D stats weren't that bad.  Need a play though?  This D isn't going to give you one.  Stop the run?  Not when it counts.  That's coaching.  Tomlin has been unable to get these guys to play their responsibilities.  Wasn't it one of our D linemen that said guys weren't covering their areas?  Poor angles on tackling?  You think Belichick puts up with that?  I dunno what to make of Tomlin over all.  I hate coaches that consistently put up winning seasons and then crap out of the playoffs quickly.  The Rooneys will NEVER fire Tomlin for a host of reasons and he probably doesn't deserve it at this time based on his record.  But I sure would like to Ben get another ring while I'm alive.  Tomlin seems overmatched to me and while he's definitely a player's coach sometimes that's not the best measurement.  So I guess getting to the playoffs if first if you want to win a superbowl.  I get that.  But the way this team plays in the playoffs is discouraging.  That's all

Leadership is the art of motivating individuals to accomplish a set goal.  

That motivation takes six distinct forms, (sometimes called leadership styles):

The pacesetting leader expects and models excellence and self-direction. If this style were summed up in one phrase, it would be “Do as I do, now.” The pacesetting style works best when the team is already motivated and skilled, and the leader needs quick results. Used extensively, however, this style can overwhelm team members and squelch innovation.  Cower displayed this tendency a lot (though far from solely).

The authoritative leader mobilizes the team toward a common vision and focuses on end goals, leaving the means up to each individual. If this style were summed up in one phrase, it would be “Come with me.” The authoritative style works best when the team needs a new vision because circumstances have changed, or when explicit guidance is not required. Authoritative leaders inspire an entrepreneurial spirit and vibrant enthusiasm for the mission. It is not the best fit when the leader is working with a team of experts who know more than him.  Belichick seems most comfortable here. 

The affiliative leader works to create emotional bonds that bring a feeling of bonding and belonging to the organization. If this style were summed up in one phrase, it would be “People come first.” The affiliative style works best in times of stress, when teammates need to heal from a trauma, or when the team needs to rebuild trust. This style should not be used exclusively, because a sole reliance on praise and nurturing can foster mediocre performance and a lack of direction. See any Browns coach over the last 30 years.

The coaching leader develops people for the future. If this style were summed up in one phrase, it would be “Try this.” The coaching style works best when the leader wants to help teammates build lasting personal strengths that make them more successful overall. It is least effective when teammates are defiant and unwilling to change or learn, or if the leader lacks proficiency. Pete Carrol comes to mind.

The coercive leader demands immediate compliance. If this style were summed up in one phrase, it would be “Do what I tell you.” The coercive style is most effective in times of crisis, such as in a company turnaround or a takeover attempt, or during an actual emergency like a tornado or a fire. This style can also help control a problem teammate when everything else has failed. However, it should be avoided in almost every other case because it can alienate people and stifle flexibility and inventiveness.  This works best in moments - and where I think Tomlin has demonstrated his biggest weakness.

The democratic leader builds consensus through participation. If this style were summed up in one phrase, it would be “What do you think?” The democratic style is most effective when the leader needs the team to buy into or have ownership of a decision, plan, or goal, or if he or she is uncertain and needs fresh ideas from qualified teammates. It is not the best choice in an emergency situation, when time is of the essence for another reason or when teammates are not informed enough to offer sufficient guidance to the leader.  THIS is what Tomlin demonstrates the most.  By far.

The trick is an effective leader (e.g. coach) needs to use all 6 styles situationally - at different times, and with different players - all based upon individual and situation.  

Tomlin has been at the helm for 10 years.  He's 116-60.  Though he's had 2 .500 seasons (2012 - 2013), he's never had a loosing season.  He's reached the playoffs 8 times, the AFC Championship 3 times, the Super Bowl twice, and won one.  HOWEVER  - I've not seen passion, no fire, no sideline ass-chewings.   The same press conference EVERY.......DAMN.........TIME.........

[Cali-Steeler]

   
 If I remember correctly, not many players crossed Cowher. And not many locker room problems...


       


   

[Chucktownsteeler]

Belicheet is definitely better that Tomlin, no room for argument there. But he better than everyone else as well. He gets the most from his roster, from Brady down to an UDFA. Remember the lacrosse player that torched us a few years back? He never played in the NFL before and he ran wild through our defense.

Belicheet also has had the luxury of playing in the weakest division year-after of any sport I know. That doesn't hurt. Cheating doesn't hurt either. 

Tomlin to me never seems prepared, lacks game time clock management, and so no idea about adjustments. He rode the coat tails of a strong team he received from Cowher and also BA and OMD.

[Rollers]

 If I remember correctly, not many players crossed Cowher. And not many locker room problems...




one super bowl win.  just like Tomlin.  He was not that great a coach either

[Chucktownsteeler]

You guys can joust all you want between Cowher and Tomlin, I'll take Noll.

Noll built a perennial loser into a dynasty. He was also a reminiscence man - Symphony conductor, wine connoisseur, gourmet chef, an airplane pilot, a true family man.

Super Bowls - 4-0. No cheating.

Truly a man's man.

[mcmillenandwife]

If Cowher had Ben for 10 years instead of 3 (with one of them being a rookie season and one of them being a nightmare Super Bowl hangover season complete with a motorcycle accident, appendix surgery and multiple concussions), I truly believe he would've won more Super Bowls.

Cowher had us in contention year in and year out with the likes of O'Donnell, Tomczak, Stewart and Maddox. We were a QB away for most of his career. When we finally got that QB, he immediately won. 

Regardless of who was our best coach (I'll go with Noll based on 4 Super Bowl wins), Cowher was my favorite. And all three are excellent, including Tomlin.

Not sure why we're always whining about Belicheat. I HATED him with Cleveland... hell, Cleveland hated him with Cleveland... and he didn't do SHIT in New England until he lucked into the GOAT, Tom Brady, in the 6th round and then Bledsoe get's cold-cocked. 

If you ask me, Mo Lewis deserves at least 80% of the credit for Belichick's success -- make it 90% -- because had he not blasted Bledsoe into the twilight zone, New England still has zero Lombardi's and Tom Brady isn't married to a supermodel.

History lesson for you Belicheat bag-sniffers:

• Belichick is hired by the Browns in '91 (beating our Bill Cowher for the job)
  
• In 5 seasons as head coach in the Mistake on the Lake, Evil Bill has ONE winning season.
  
• He goes 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5, 5-11. 
  
• In his one winning season, he gets HUMILIATED 29-9 in the playoffs by Pittsburgh (and beaten by Cowher 3 times that season)
  
• Back to being an assistant for 5 years after the Browns bail for Baltimore. 
  
• In 2000, Pete Carroll was 8-8 in New England and gets the ax so they can bring in Evil Bill. 
  
• Evil Bill goes 5-11 in 2000, then starts '01 at 0-2.
  
• SAME OLD SHIT!
  
• THAT is when Bledsoe goes down and Tom Terrific comes in. 
  

It's not coincidence, folks. And Belichick knows it.

I predict when Brady retires, Belichick will also retire to protect his legacy. He's NOTHING without Brady. 41-57 as a head coach before Bledsoe went down... and average season of 6-10 / 7-9. 

A steaming pile of excrement surrounded by flies and spies.

[Chucktownsteeler]

What did Belicheet go the year Brady was out with the knee? 12-4? I still say a lot of Belicheat's success stems from playing in the worst division I can think of of any sport:

Jets
Dolphins
Bills

These teams are perennial doormats. And of course the cheating helps him as well.

[mcmillenandwife]

What did Belicheet go the year Brady was out with the knee? 12-4? 

11-5... but they missed the playoffs. 

I still say a lot of Belicheat's success stems from playing in the worst division I can think of of any sport:

Jets
Dolphins
Bills

These teams are perennial doormats. And of course the cheating helps him as well.

LOL. Yes, the cheating certainly hasn't seemed to hurt. 

[Garrett Garlits]

I forget who originally said it, but quite a few Steeler "fans" are spoiled brats. They demand the Super Bowl as their due, rather than accept it as a reward for a special season. I don't know what kind of universe we live in when a three-point loss to a team that was good enough to almost beat New England is a firing offense, even in a playoff game, but I damn sure don't live there. It was a disappointing loss, even perplexing, perhaps, but not the end of the world like some seem to think. Given the fact that Tomlin has to coach a whole different breed of player than Noll or Cowher ever did- even the most team-oriented players won't stand for being screamed at or aggressively coached for long, and those less than that will give it right back and eventually wreck the organization if not stopped- I think he's doing the best possible job.

Is he better than Belichick? If you solely count trophies won, then the answer is no not only in his case, but in all but a few cases, including Noll's. However, leaving the cheating aside, Belichick has made his share of blunders and lost games he had no business losing, including all three of his Super Bowl losses. There's just as much drama surrounding the Patriot organization as there is the Steelers, although of a different type, and in the Pats' case the owner's calling his star quarterback an adopted son and trading his appointed successor because the star's ego demands it, and over the coach's strenuous objections. There are also a slew of former players who sound as if they've been let out of jail once they leave Foxborough for other pastures, most recently Danny Amendola. Harrison's one of the few who's said anything about Tomlin, and given the way he left, did you expect anything less?

We as fans need to remember that our standard should be different than that of those who work in football for a living. For them, it's all about the championships and the money, and that's as it should be. As fans, though, all we need to worry about is being entertained. Venting after a loss is fine; having opinions about what's wrong or right with a team is expected. Demanding firings when the team doesn't win a Super Bowl (which only one team does, don't forget) even when that team consistently makes the playoffs and conducts itself in the community (for the most part) with class and humility is dead wrong, and insinuating that the owner doesn't know football and only keeps the head coach because he's black or that the GM stinks because every draft pick doesn't pan out to that particular fan's satisfaction is beyond ludicrous. All the Steelers owe anyone is twenty weeks of entertainment, including preseason. Wins are certainly preferable, but they shouldn't be a prerequisite for future support.

[mcmillenandwife]

I forget who originally said it, but quite a few Steeler "fans" are spoiled brats. They demand the Super Bowl as their due, rather than accept it as a reward for a special season. I don't know what kind of universe we live in when a three-point loss to a team that was good enough to  almost beat New England is a firing offense, even in a playoff game, but I damn sure don't live there. It was a disappointing loss, even perplexing, perhaps, but not the end of the world like some seem to think. Given the fact that Tomlin has to coach a whole different breed of player than Noll or Cowher ever did- even the most team-oriented players won't stand for being screamed at or aggressively coached for long, and those less than that will give it right back and eventually wreck the organization if not stopped- I think he's doing the best possible job.

Is he better than Belichick? If you solely count trophies won, then the answer is no not only in his case, but in all but a few cases, including Noll's. However, leaving the cheating aside, Belichick has made his share of blunders and lost games he had no business losing, including all three of his Super Bowl losses. There's just as much drama surrounding the Patriot organization as there is the Steelers, although of a different type, and in the Pats' case the owner's calling his star quarterback an adopted son and trading his appointed successor because the star's ego demands it, and over the coach's strenuous objections. There are also a slew of former players who sound as if they've been let out of jail once they leave Foxborough for other pastures, most recently Danny Amendola. Harrison's one of the few who's said anything about Tomlin, and given the way he left, did you expect anything less?

We as fans need to remember that our standard should be different than that of those who work in football for a living. For them, it's all about the championships and the money, and that's as it should be. As fans, though, all we need to worry about is being entertained. Venting after a loss is fine; having opinions about what's wrong or right with a team is expected. Demanding firings when the team doesn't win a Super Bowl (which only one team does, don't forget) even when that team consistently makes the playoffs and conducts itself in the community (for the most part) with class and humility is dead wrong, and insinuating that the owner doesn't know football and only keeps the head coach because he's black or that the GM stinks because every draft pick doesn't pan out to that particular fan's satisfaction is beyond ludicrous. All the Steelers owe anyone is twenty weeks of entertainment, including preseason. Wins are certainly preferable, but they shouldn't be a prerequisite for future support.

This is all damn well said and on point. 

[RaynorShyne]

I forget who originally said it, but quite a few Steeler "fans" are spoiled brats. They demand the Super Bowl as their due, rather than accept it as a reward for a special season. I don't know what kind of universe we live in when a three-point loss to a team that was good enough to  almost beat New England is a firing offense, even in a playoff game, but I damn sure don't live there. It was a disappointing loss, even perplexing, perhaps, but not the end of the world like some seem to think. Given the fact that Tomlin has to coach a whole different breed of player than Noll or Cowher ever did- even the most team-oriented players won't stand for being screamed at or aggressively coached for long, and those less than that will give it right back and eventually wreck the organization if not stopped- I think he's doing the best possible job.

Is he better than Belichick? If you solely count trophies won, then the answer is no not only in his case, but in all but a few cases, including Noll's. However, leaving the cheating aside, Belichick has made his share of blunders and lost games he had no business losing, including all three of his Super Bowl losses. There's just as much drama surrounding the Patriot organization as there is the Steelers, although of a different type, and in the Pats' case the owner's calling his star quarterback an adopted son and trading his appointed successor because the star's ego demands it, and over the coach's strenuous objections. There are also a slew of former players who sound as if they've been let out of jail once they leave Foxborough for other pastures, most recently Danny Amendola. Harrison's one of the few who's said anything about Tomlin, and given the way he left, did you expect anything less?

We as fans need to remember that our standard should be different than that of those who work in football for a living. For them, it's all about the championships and the money, and that's as it should be. As fans, though, all we need to worry about is being entertained. Venting after a loss is fine; having opinions about what's wrong or right with a team is expected. Demanding firings when the team doesn't win a Super Bowl (which only one team does, don't forget) even when that team consistently makes the playoffs and conducts itself in the community (for the most part) with class and humility is dead wrong, and insinuating that the owner doesn't know football and only keeps the head coach because he's black or that the GM stinks because every draft pick doesn't pan out to that particular fan's satisfaction is beyond ludicrous. All the Steelers owe anyone is twenty weeks of entertainment, including preseason. Wins are certainly preferable, but they shouldn't be a prerequisite for future support.

You "fan" the way you want, Garlits, and I'll "fan" mine.  

That "rah rah, give it your best" crap is BS.

In the infamous words of John Mason: Your “best”!? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Any coach who gave a, "well, the fans just deserve entertainment, give it your best.  Good show, ol chaps" speech would need to be fired.

[Garrett Garlits]

Why in the world should I as a fan think like a coach? That's exactly the problem I'm talking about. Coaches have the right to be demanding of their players; that's what they're paid for, and they have their professional lives at stake if they don't perform. What does a fan have at stake? They can always choose to spend their entertainment dollars somewhere else, so don't give me the "we pay their salaries" routine. What else? A little hide off the ego? Bragging rights at the local bar? A few hours of time on a day off? What the hell do those mean in the grand scheme of things, and why should anyone care?

I'm going through the games on this site that were posted while I was in the hospital, and I can honestly say that the losses are just as entertaining to me as the wins. Why? Because the Steelers are one of the teams involved. It's really that simple. My loyalty goes to the organization win, lose, or draw. It's the same way with the Pirates, as awful as they've been most of the time since I've been alive, and with the Penguins too. I've never thought of them as products or services that are only to be consumed when top quality is assured. They're a part of my life, all three franchises, and you can throw Pitt Panther football and basketball in while you're at it. Sure I want them to succeed, but I don't make success a condition of whether I continue to invest in them or not. That's just the way I was raised as a sports fan by my parents. The same goes for patriotism or lack thereof; that's why I don't give one thin damn what the Steelers do during the anthem. I'll be watching no matter what, unlike some of you. (Yes, I know they've agreed to stand, and I'm glad, but if they didn't it wouldn't upset me one bit.)

[Rollers]

What did Belicheet go the year Brady was out with the knee? 12-4? 

11-5... but they missed the playoffs. 

I still say a lot of Belicheat's success stems from playing in the worst division I can think of of any sport:

Jets
Dolphins
Bills

These teams are perennial doormats. And of course the cheating helps him as well.

LOL. Yes, the cheating certainly hasn't seemed to hurt. 

So what do you think the Steelers record next year regular season if Ben goes down and can't play the season?

[RaynorShyne]

Why in the world should I as a fan think like a coach? That's exactly the problem I'm talking about. Coaches have the right to be demanding of their players; that's what they're paid for, and they have their professional lives at stake if they don't perform. What does a fan have at stake? They can always choose to spend their entertainment dollars somewhere else, so don't give me the "we pay their salaries" routine. What else? A little hide off the ego? Bragging rights at the local bar? A few hours of time on a day off? What the hell do those mean in the grand scheme of things, and why should anyone care?

I'm going through the games on this site that were posted while I was in the hospital, and I can honestly say that the losses are just as entertaining to me as the wins. Why? Because the Steelers are one of the teams involved. It's really that simple. My loyalty goes to the organization win, lose, or draw. It's the same way with the Pirates, as awful as they've been most of the time since I've been alive, and with the Penguins too. I've never thought of them as products or services that are only to be consumed when top quality is assured. They're a part of my life, all three franchises, and you can throw Pitt Panther football and basketball in while you're at it. Sure I want them to succeed, but I don't make success a condition of whether I continue to invest in them or not. That's just the way I was raised as a sports fan by my parents. The same goes for patriotism or lack thereof; that's why I don't give one thin damn what the Steelers do during the anthem. I'll be watching no matter what, unlike some of you. (Yes, I know they've agreed to stand, and I'm glad, but if they didn't it wouldn't upset me one bit.)

Like I said, you consume the product the way you want to.  Enjoy.  Do what makes you happy.  You have the right to your own opinion.  You also have the right to meander around various topics.

Don't think you have the right to determine how I consume it.

[Garrett Garlits]

Okay, you want it straight? Tomlin's the better coach, Super Bowls be damned. Why? Because I like him and I'd want my kid to play for him. I'll take him over fifty Belichicks and their tainted trophies. If that makes me a loser, so be it.

And by the way, it isn't screwing the prom queen that makes you a winner, it's being nice enough so she stays for breakfast.

[mcmillenandwife]

So what do you think the Steelers record next year regular season if Ben goes down and can't play the season?

Heaven forbid that would happen, but I think we had winning records the last couple of times Ben was out for an extended period. 3-1 in 2010, 3-2 in 2015 with complete $#!t for backups in most of those games (Batch being the exception).

6-3 extrapolated out for a 16-game season is 10-6/11-5. I guess it would depend on how Mason Rudolph does. Dobbs is likely gone after preseason and Landry Jones has already proven he's not a long-term solution. So... since we're playing the hypothetical game, maybe Rudolph comes in and lights it up. Maybe 12-4, 13-3... maybe a Super Bowl MVP for Rudolph like Nick Foles? 

All I know is, Belichick just LOST the Super Bowl (his 3rd loss) to a team who's MVP QB went down. He lost to a journeyman back-up QB who had bounced to his 4th locker room in 4 years.

New England didn't lose because of Tom Brady (who threw for 505 yds and 3 TDs). They lost because of Bill Belichick. Maybe he should've played Malcomb Butler... who bailed his ass out vs. Seattle (a Super Bowl he should have lost).

You love Belichick so much? Go buy a #92 Patriots jersey. I'm sticking with Tomlin.

[Chucktownsteeler]

I expect good things from Mason Rudolph. The QB situation could break many ways, I saw an interesting write up that we keep Ben, Mason, and Josh. Landry is shown the door or traded.

Who knows?

[Hoos]

Chuck Noll

[ECboy]

I've never seen a coach continually lose players or trade them away almost daring people to count out his team like Belichek does.
And everytime a new conspiracy theory pops up about the Patriots they make it to the SB anyways.
And they have owned the Steelers like slaves since Belly took over there in 2000.
Mike Tomlin is a damn good football coach, second best in the NFL imo, behind Belichek.
If Bill Walsh would have stayed in the NFL I think he would be right up there with Belichek, but no one is even close to Belichek, no one.

[Rollers]

So what do you think the Steelers record next year regular season if Ben goes down and can't play the season?

Heaven forbid that would happen, but I think we had winning records the last couple of times Ben was out for an extended period. 3-1 in 2010, 3-2 in 2015 with complete $#!t for backups in most of those games (Batch being the exception).

6-3 extrapolated out for a 16-game season is 10-6/11-5. I guess it would depend on how Mason Rudolph does. Dobbs is likely gone after preseason and Landry Jones has already proven he's not a long-term solution. So... since we're playing the hypothetical game, maybe Rudolph comes in and lights it up. Maybe 12-4, 13-3... maybe a Super Bowl MVP for Rudolph like Nick Foles? 

All I know is, Belichick just LOST the Super Bowl (his 3rd loss) to a team who's MVP QB went down. He lost to a journeyman back-up QB who had bounced to his 4th locker room in 4 years.

New England didn't lose because of Tom Brady (who threw for 505 yds and 3 TDs). They lost because of Bill Belichick. Maybe he should've played Malcomb Butler... who bailed his ass out vs. Seattle (a Super Bowl he should have lost).

You love Belichick so much? Go buy a #92 Patriots jersey. I'm sticking with Tomlin.

lot of maybes   no one said they loved Belichick.  Question was who's a better coach?  Who has more bowl wins?  In my view that's the measure of a coach.  I am sick of seeing undisciplined play out of this team.  People out of position and not doing what they're supposed to do.  There's a reason for that.  Coaching.  So we'll see what tomlin accomplishes this year.