Haley finally Gone! Thank you! > ESPN
Cali-Steeler
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#1
01-18-2018, 03:49 AM

   
ESPN is reporting >



  Toad will not be back >



 Ben Knew what he was talking about...



http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22133...todd-haley
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2018, 03:55 AM by Cali-Steeler.)
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mcmillenandwife
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#2
01-18-2018, 04:05 AM

(01-18-2018, 03:49 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote: ESPN is reporting >



  Toad will not be back >



 Ben Knew what he was talking about...



http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22133...todd-haley



GOOD!!!  Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup Wavehello Wavehello Wavehello Rockon Rockon Rockon
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Chucktownsteeler
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#3
01-18-2018, 04:09 AM

Tomlin just announced all defensive coaches are safe and will be returning.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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mcmillenandwife
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#4
01-18-2018, 04:37 AM

(01-18-2018, 04:09 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Tomlin just announced all defensive coaches are safe and will be returning.

Pi_nervous
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RaynorShyne
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#5
01-18-2018, 04:45 AM

Haley is gone!

Dilly! Dilly!
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mcmillenandwife
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#6
01-18-2018, 06:37 AM

(01-18-2018, 04:45 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Haley is gone!

Dilly!  Dilly!

Laugh Yes, quite! Dilly, dilly!

[Image: dilly_dilly.jpg]
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Chucktownsteeler
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#7
01-18-2018, 06:40 AM

Dilly, Dilly!

I believe this has as much to do with his off field antics as anything else.


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sandfan
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#8
01-18-2018, 08:43 AM

The offense and Ben prospered under Haley vs Ariens. He was quirky but the overall numbers for the offense were pretty solid.

I never believed Haley was the biggest problem on the staff. For me that moniker sticks with Tomlin. When he goes I'll contribute a dilly dilly.

Tomlin seems to have made another of his ill advised, my view, decisions re the defense. Can anyone make a case for the LB talent we have drafted? I suggest Porter may be just as incompetent as Tomlin. Losing Shazier was a major blow but the rest of the group, save Watt, was less than impressive. This team used to live via pressure from the OLB. It appears 2 of the last 3 #1 draft choices at the position were misses. Or could not be coached up to compete at the pro level. The situation for DBs is not much different. Maybe Lake could play but his coaching ability seems to be suspect.

I think the organization needs to hire coaches, not former players with no success in that capacity. Those positions should not be treated like a beauty contest or retirement plan. That is if Rooney wants to win #7.

I did not watch but read Harrison saw a lot of action for the Pats in their last game. Funny how he can cut it with them but ride the pine for most of the season with the Steelers.

The team is fortunate to keep Munchak. He's certainly been able to coach up the players drafted in that area.

This team under performed due to lack of discipline, focus, questionable in game strategy and tactics. All or most of that rests with Tomlin. Scapegoats may provide the easy way to suggest there's a fix but the true root of the issue lies with the head coach.

I've never been a Tomlin fan. Never will be. The talent on this roster almost guarantees he can meet his standard of not having a losing season. He's more or less wasted 10 years of a HOF QB and several years of potential HOF performers at other positions. Unless, of course, you are in the camp that is not fully committed to winning Lombardis. Then Tomlin's your boy.
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mcmillenandwife
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#9
01-18-2018, 06:06 PM

Stefon Diggs' "other" big play this year...  Pi_bigsmile



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Crash
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#10
01-18-2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:The offense and Ben prospered under Haley vs Ariens. He was quirky but the overall numbers for the offense were pretty solid.

You are using stats without context.
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mcmillenandwife
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#11
01-18-2018, 09:29 PM

(01-18-2018, 07:12 PM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:The offense and Ben prospered under Haley vs Ariens. He was quirky but the overall numbers for the offense were pretty solid.

You are using stats without context.


Agreed. 

In fact, I think it worked in reverse. Haley prospered because of Ben and was kept in his job too long because all that offensive talent (Ben in particular) helped mask his deficiencies.
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RaynorShyne
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#12
01-19-2018, 02:08 AM

(01-18-2018, 09:29 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-18-2018, 07:12 PM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:The offense and Ben prospered under Haley vs Ariens. He was quirky but the overall numbers for the offense were pretty solid.

You are using stats without context.


Agreed. 

In fact, I think it worked in reverse. Haley prospered because of Ben and was kept in his job too long because all that offensive talent (Ben in particular) helped mask his deficiencies.

Masking deficiencies!

Dilly, Dilly!   Roll
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Chucktownsteeler
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#13
01-19-2018, 02:18 AM

I believe Haley's non-renewal came down to his off the field antics coupled with:

1.) Not having Ben a play ready at the end of the Cheatriots game.

If his fate wasn't already sealed the (2) 4th and 1 fiasco's were the straws the broke the camel's back.


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RaynorShyne
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#14
01-19-2018, 03:23 AM

(01-19-2018, 02:18 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: I believe Haley's non-renewal came down to his off the field antics coupled with:

1.) Not having Ben a play ready at the end of the Cheatriots game.

If his fate wasn't already sealed the (2) 4th and 1 fiasco's were the straws the broke the camel's back.

....add in 'being a straw man for Tomlin's deficiencies' and I agree completely
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sandfan
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#15
01-19-2018, 07:07 AM

I don't have the time or interest to do a full or deep comparison. Might have made the effort if not for the kneeling in Chicago. I copied this from an article. I seem to recall Ben's sack totals were much improved under Haley as well.

I will continue to believe Tomlin is the real problem. I know most of you guys hate Haley and he's done enough off the field to look the fool so I won't even try to defend him in that arena. Maybe the data in the attached is all BS but I seem to recall seeing comments like this over the past few years. By the way I seem to also recall a lot of board members were not all that fond of Ariens. It's a tough job and impossible to satisfy everyone. Unless you are the OC for the Pats with a head coach that can coach, unlike Tomlin, and have Brady executing for you. Then you seem to be in fine shape.


Ben Roethlisberger had his best statistical seasons under Haley, including career highs in passing yards (4,952, in 2014) and offensive yards per game (328.2, in 2015), but their rift became beyond repair.
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Crash
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#16
01-19-2018, 07:25 AM

Quote:Ben Roethlisberger had his best statistical seasons under Haley, including career highs in passing yards (4,952, in 2014) and offensive yards per game (328.2, in 2015), but their rift became beyond repair.

Stats without context.
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Rollers
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#17
01-19-2018, 08:02 AM

stats without context is also saying our defense is ranked as high as 5th in come categories. They are horrendous when the game is on the line. I would have kept Haley if Butler were shown the door along with Porter
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bksteeler
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#18
01-19-2018, 08:29 AM

(01-19-2018, 08:02 AM)Rollers Wrote: stats without context is also saying our defense is ranked as high as 5th in come categories.  They are horrendous when the game is on the line.  I would have kept Haley if Butler were shown the door along with Porter

Agreed. I'd have replaced Butler faster than Haley.

Ultimately, the context is that Ben didn't like Todd. And Haley never played with a great defense like Arians did. Give Haley the Steeler defenses of 2008, and 2010, we probably win Super Bowls. And you will never ever convince me that Arians carried Lebeau in those years. Lebeau by any fair measure carried Arians his entire time there. All you have to do is look at how many times we won despite scoring less than 20. Heck, look at how many times we scored 14 or less and still won. I did a breakdown on it on the old board. I think we won about 40-45 percent, when the typical team, including the Patriots won 10-20 percent if that much.

And everything you say about Ben carrying Haley, you can say about Ben carrying Arians.

Will Fichtner be an upgrade? In terms of relationship with Ben, definitely. Our best hope is that he was the hidden real reason for Ben's improvement rather than Haley, and that he can take this offense to another level. Time will tell.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#19
01-19-2018, 08:35 AM

Not sure if this is a stat with or without context, but after Fitchner left the booth and was on the field with Ben the offense averaged 9 more points per game.


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Chucktownsteeler
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#20
01-19-2018, 08:58 AM

Haley's Vomit offense was great between the 20 yard lines. In the red-zone not so much.


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Rollers
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#21
01-19-2018, 12:04 PM

(01-19-2018, 08:58 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Haley's Vomit offense was great between the 20 yard lines. In the red-zone not so much.

our defense was the achille's heel all year.  How many points did Baltimore put up?  How many yards the Brown's QB have throwing the ball?  That vomit offense put up 42 on one of the best defenses in the league.  While I"m not sad to see Haley gone our defense is truly pathetic.  ZERO discipline.  How many times did we hear Dupree's name called against the jags?  How about Watt?  How many times was WIlliams out of position or missed tackles.  How about that secondary? GREAT defense.  In one way that horrible defense dictated to TOmlin that he needed to try an onside kick.  THEY SUCK.  Yet we got the exact same guys that gave us that defense coming back next year and they are "safe"   We are truly screwed.  Shazier is gone for good.  Heyward?  Tuitt?  almost invisible against the Jags.  Maybe it's time the 3-4 went away for good.  I don't know
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Chucktownsteeler
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#22
01-19-2018, 11:33 PM

Straight up article on Tomlin and his defense (or lack there-of):

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/zeise...1801180120


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(This post was last modified: 01-19-2018, 11:34 PM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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Rollers
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#23
01-20-2018, 01:54 AM

you look at our schedule for next year at least the opponents. You are going to see the complete collapse of that defense.

1. Matt Ryan
2. Cam Newton
3. Phillip Rivers - Yeah go ahead and make fun of him. We make awful QBs look like HOF ers and he's pretty good
4. Tom Brady
5. Breese
6. Jamies Winston

Tomlin has hitched his wagon to a horrible defensive staff. Good times ahead
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Cali-Steeler
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#24
01-20-2018, 04:03 AM

(01-20-2018, 01:54 AM)Rollers Wrote: you look at our schedule for next year at least the opponents.  You are going to see the complete collapse of that defense.  

1.  Matt Ryan
2.  Cam Newton
3.  Phillip Rivers  - Yeah go ahead and make fun of him.  We make awful QBs look like HOF ers and he's pretty good
4.  Tom Brady
5.  Breese
6.  Jamies Winston

Tomlin has hitched his wagon to a horrible defensive staff.  Good times ahead

                         




 You forgot the Raiders... We are are like 0 - 5  When the Steelers come to Oakland. I know, Ive been to every game...
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2018, 04:07 AM by Cali-Steeler.)
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mcmillenandwife
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#25
01-20-2018, 07:48 AM

(01-20-2018, 04:03 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote:   You forgot the Raiders... We are are like 0 - 5  When the Steelers come to Oakland. I know, Ive been to every game...


So you're saying they lose every time you go to the game?  Nerd

Sounds like maybe YOU are the problem, Cali...  Pi_bigsmile
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Cali-Steeler
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#26
01-20-2018, 09:49 AM

(01-20-2018, 07:48 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-20-2018, 04:03 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote:   You forgot the Raiders... We are are like 0 - 5  When the Steelers come to Oakland. I know, Ive been to every game...


So you're saying they lose every time you go to the game?  Nerd

Sounds like maybe YOU are the problem, Cali...  Pi_bigsmile


 I'm hoping not... Id like to attend a game they win in.   >  .   Although in 95 when they went to the superbowl. I went to the Raiders game here. It was the only game in Oakland I saw them win. I was in the end zone to watch Ernie Mills catch his second touchdown of the game. 

 As he put 2 fingers up to the camera up close for his 2 touchdowns. I think they won something like > 24 to 10

.
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mcmillenandwife
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#27
01-20-2018, 10:13 AM

(01-20-2018, 09:49 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote:
(01-20-2018, 07:48 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-20-2018, 04:03 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote:   You forgot the Raiders... We are are like 0 - 5  When the Steelers come to Oakland. I know, Ive been to every game...


So you're saying they lose every time you go to the game?  Nerd

Sounds like maybe YOU are the problem, Cali...  Pi_bigsmile


 I'm hoping not... Id like to attend a game they win in.   >  .   Although in 95 when they went to the superbowl. I went to the Raiders game here. It was the only game in Oakland I saw them win. I was in the end zone to watch Ernie Mills catch his second touchdown of the game. 

 As he put 2 fingers up to the camera up close for his 2 touchdowns. I think they won something like > 24 to 10

.


29-10. That was a NICE win.  Thumbsup



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bbbooger
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#28
01-20-2018, 11:30 AM

So... we fired the guy who's unit put up 42 points on the No. 1 defense in the NFL, and...

We told the guy (and his minions) that gave up 45 points to BBBortles et al. his job was safe...
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mcmillenandwife
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#29
01-20-2018, 06:29 PM

(01-20-2018, 11:30 AM)bbbooger Wrote: So... we fired the guy who's unit put up 42 points on the No. 1 defense in the NFL, and...

We told the guy (and his minions) that gave up 45 points to BBBortles et al. his job was safe...

Well, first... let's be clear, Ben threw some flippin' AMAZING borderline miracle 4th down passes (36 yds on 4th and 11 to Bryant, 43 yds to Brown on 4th and 5), so Haley gets ZERO credit for those 14 points because they came after his play calls on downs 1 through 3 had FAILED. The final TD came in garbage time and was frankly STUPID... we should've kicked a FG the moment we got in range and it was evident a quick TD wasn't going to happen, then tried another onside kick. I'm also not giving Haley credit for Ben's improvisational lateral to Bell. That was CLASSIC Big Ben improv and the exact thing Haley has been trying to choke out of Ben since he's been here. 

The guy was an asshole who couldn't work well with other assistant coaches (many of whom quit for that very reason) or key players like Ben and AB. He did bring down Ben's sack numbers and reduced the number of hits Ben took, and for that, I'll give him credit. But he also took the QB sneak away from our monster 6'5", 240 lbs QB who I don't EVER recall being stuffed on a sneak, so... no soup for you, Haley. Buh-bye.

Regarding the defense, I'm not necessarily surprised that Butler is staying because the defense was actually pretty solid for much of the year, especially early when the offense was struggling. Also #1 in sacks despite fielding a lot of young players. I am a little surprised at NO coaching changes on defense in terms of assistants because our linebackers were a MESS once Shazier went down. We'll see what happens, I guess.
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Rollers
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#30
01-20-2018, 09:37 PM

(01-20-2018, 06:29 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-20-2018, 11:30 AM)bbbooger Wrote: So... we fired the guy who's unit put up 42 points on the No. 1 defense in the NFL, and...

We told the guy (and his minions) that gave up 45 points to BBBortles et al. his job was safe...

Well, first... let's be clear, Ben threw some flippin' AMAZING borderline miracle 4th down passes (36 yds on 4th and 11 to Bryant, 43 yds to Brown on 4th and 5), so Haley gets ZERO credit for those 14 points because they came after his play calls on downs 1 through 3 had FAILED. The final TD came in garbage time and was frankly STUPID... we should've kicked a FG the moment we got in range and it was evident a quick TD wasn't going to happen, then tried another onside kick. I'm also not giving Haley credit for Ben's improvisational lateral to Bell. That was CLASSIC Big Ben improv and the exact thing Haley has been trying to choke out of Ben since he's been here. 

The guy was an asshole who couldn't work well with other assistant coaches (many of whom quit for that very reason) or key players like Ben and AB. He did bring down Ben's sack numbers and reduced the number of hits Ben took, and for that, I'll give him credit. But he also took the QB sneak away from our monster 6'5", 240 lbs QB who I don't EVER recall being stuffed on a sneak, so... no soup for you, Haley. Buh-bye.

Regarding the defense, I'm not necessarily surprised that Butler is staying because the defense was actually pretty solid for much of the year, especially early when the offense was struggling. Also #1 in sacks despite fielding a lot of young players. I am a little surprised at NO coaching changes on defense in terms of assistants because our linebackers were a MESS once Shazier went down. We'll see what happens, I guess.
I couldn't disagree with you more Tim.  The defense was solid against some pretty bad teams on offense usually.  That defense was completely undisciplined. They were garbage wen it mattered the most.  That is on Butler.  Tomlin had a chance to improve the whole mess on defense and stood pat.  Burns is not developing.  Dupree is not developing.  The D line regressed.  Safeties were NEVER in position.  See the Browns game where that defense gave up 350 yards to the Brown's QB that SUCKED.  I firmly believe if that Brown's receiver doesn't drop that fourth down pass where NO ONE was near him on the sidelines they probably win that game.  That defense was garbage when we needed them to step up.  Yeah Butler did a great job
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