Pats game thread
Rollers
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#91
12-17-2018, 10:29 AM

(12-17-2018, 10:27 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 10:25 AM)Rollers Wrote: My wife is literally crying she's so happy.  She's one of the most rabid steeler fans I know

 Nice!  Thumbsup

P.S. -- She knows we WON, right? Just making sure they're tears of joy.  Laugh

you kidding me?  LOL  She NEVER gives up.  When we go to a game in Pittsburgh I always hope there's no opposing fans sitting next to us.  If there are it's 50 50 I get into a fist fight.  And I'm old
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bksteeler
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#92
12-17-2018, 10:39 AM

Sweet win. Couldn't bear to even listen to the game. Every time I do, something bad seems to happen (in this case, Ben's first pick). Just periodically checked in to ESPN and in the final moments, this board.

Needed this win with the Ravens, (and amazingly, even the Browns) nipping at our heels.
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bbbooger
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#93
12-17-2018, 10:45 AM

So... Where the eff has that been all year...?
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RaynorShyne
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#94
12-17-2018, 12:33 PM

Oh, I'm going to bed a happy boy tonight - and I recorded it so I'll watch it AGAIN tomorrow
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Chucktownsteeler
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#95
12-18-2018, 03:07 AM

I'm glad we won, but not ecstatic. Pats had a ton of Penalties and still had the chance at the end of the game.

I'll take the win, but wish we had won it by more or even more convincingly.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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Garrett Garlits
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#96
12-18-2018, 08:09 AM

It's amazing. All week people are saying that the Steelers had no chance to beat the Pats, that it would be a miracle if they weren't blown out of the stadium. Now that we've done the supposedly impossible, it's all about Brady being an old man on the decline and the Pats committing too many penalties. Next week if we beat the Saints, it will probably be because the Saints are trying to take it easy because they've got the inside track to the top seed in the NFC, or because Brees had a bad day because HE'S an old man. If winning these last two games can't convince you that the Steelers will get more than a "participation trophy" in the playoffs, what in the world will? Did the season truly end for most of you last week in Oakland?


As for Bowell, the forty-eight yarder saved his job, for better or for worse. He most likely beat out the best two available kickers in practice last week, so who else could they dig up, even if he has another bad day next week in New Orleans?


Finally, Ben is beyond coaching at this point, for all practical purposes. Either you take the bad with the good or you cut him at the end of the season, blow up the roster like the Raiders did, and start over with either Dobbs or Rudolph. He's already said publically that throwing interceptions doesn't especially bother him, so that should tell you all you need to know.
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mcmillenandwife
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#97
12-18-2018, 08:52 AM

(12-18-2018, 08:09 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: It's amazing. All week people are saying that the Steelers had no chance to beat the Pats, that it would be a miracle if they weren't blown out of the stadium. Now that we've done the supposedly impossible, it's all about Brady being an old man on the decline and the Pats committing too many penalties. Next week if we beat the Saints, it will probably be because the Saints are trying to take it easy because they've got the inside track to the top seed in the NFC, or because Brees had a bad day because HE'S an old man. If winning these last two games can't convince you that the Steelers will get more than a "participation trophy" in the playoffs, what in the world will? Did the season truly end for most of you last week in Oakland?


As for Bowell, the forty-eight yarder saved his job, for better or for worse. He most likely beat out the best two available kickers in practice last week, so who else could they dig up, even if he has another bad day next week in New Orleans?


Finally, Ben is beyond coaching at this point, for all practical purposes. Either you take the bad with the good or you cut him at the end of the season, blow up the roster like the Raiders did, and start over with either Dobbs or Rudolph. He's already said publically that throwing interceptions doesn't especially bother him, so that should tell you all you need to know.


Yesterday was a good win. A great win. An unlikely win, too, considering how poorly we have played in the previous 3 (and really 4) games. We HAD to have this win to stay on top of the division. Thankfully, we got it. 

It's frankly a little frustrating that the Patriots took this one to the wire. We blew multiple chances to put them away. For once, they weren't able to make us pay for it. 

Great job by the offense (other than the picks by Ben). Even greater job by the defense (despite all my bitching about them during the game). Where has that kind of defensive play been for the last few weeks? Regardless, it was great to see it yesterday, and it was fantastic to finally FINISH the game instead of letting it slip away.

As for Boswell... well, he can still kiss my ass.  Laugh

As for convincing me the Steelers deserve more than a participation trophy this year, there's only ONE THING that can do that: A 7th Lombardi Trophy. Anything short of that is a fail, a major disappointment and falls short of the team's potential. We are loaded with talent. The coaches need to put their players in position to win. Every... single... week.
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Rollers
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#98
12-18-2018, 09:13 AM

(12-18-2018, 08:52 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 08:09 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: It's amazing. All week people are saying that the Steelers had no chance to beat the Pats, that it would be a miracle if they weren't blown out of the stadium. Now that we've done the supposedly impossible, it's all about Brady being an old man on the decline and the Pats committing too many penalties. Next week if we beat the Saints, it will probably be because the Saints are trying to take it easy because they've got the inside track to the top seed in the NFC, or because Brees had a bad day because HE'S an old man. If winning these last two games can't convince you that the Steelers will get more than a "participation trophy" in the playoffs, what in the world will? Did the season truly end for most of you last week in Oakland?


As for Bowell, the forty-eight yarder saved his job, for better or for worse. He most likely beat out the best two available kickers in practice last week, so who else could they dig up, even if he has another bad day next week in New Orleans?


Finally, Ben is beyond coaching at this point, for all practical purposes. Either you take the bad with the good or you cut him at the end of the season, blow up the roster like the Raiders did, and start over with either Dobbs or Rudolph. He's already said publically that throwing interceptions doesn't especially bother him, so that should tell you all you need to know.


Yesterday was a good win. A great win. An unlikely win, too, considering how poorly we have played in the previous 3 (and really 4) games. We HAD to have this win to stay on top of the division. Thankfully, we got it. 

It's frankly a little frustrating that the Patriots took this one to the wire. We blew multiple chances to put them away. For once, they weren't able to make us pay for it. 

Great job by the offense (other than the picks by Ben). Even greater job by the defense (despite all my bitching about them during the game). Where has that kind of defensive play been for the last few weeks? Regardless, it was great to see it yesterday, and it was fantastic to finally FINISH the game instead of letting it slip away.

As for Boswell... well, he can still kiss my ass.  Laugh

As for convincing me the Steelers deserve more than a participation trophy this year, there's only ONE THING that can do that: A 7th Lombardi Trophy. Anything short of that is a fail, a major disappointment and falls short of the team's potential. We are loaded with talent. The coaches need to put their players in position to win. Every... single... week.
I'm tired of Tomlin's act.  It's old and stale.  Loose to the powerhouse Raiders.  Blow a lead against the Chargers.  No thanks.  If he gets a Lombardi this year fine.  I have zero confidence in this coaching staff.  zero.  Tomlin is probably safe here for another 10 years if he wants to stay.  Count me out as a fan of his.  He's a horrible game manager, horrible at prep, and horrible at holding his rag tag defense together.
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Garrett Garlits
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#99
12-18-2018, 10:11 AM

Tim,

I'm not the type to say "Super Bowl or nothing", this year or any year. I've seen too many talented teams that should have rolled to a championship lay a stinkbomb at the wrong time, or have a player from the other team play out of his mind and carry his team to an improbable victory. Injuries play a part too; remember the ;76 Steelers without Franco and Rocky in the AFC Championship? If they lose on a last-second field goal to the Chiefs or the Pats in the AFC title game, or to the Rams in the Super Bowl, I won't call the season a waste. Coming out flat like they did last year against Jacksonville is another matter. It all depends on how they lose, if they do.


Rollers,


A serious question: Would a Super Bowl this year, or in any year Tomlin coaches the Steelers, mean less to you as a fan simply because Tomlin would be the coach?
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2018, 10:12 AM by Garrett Garlits.)
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Rollers
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12-18-2018, 09:23 PM

(12-18-2018, 10:11 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Tim,

I'm not the type to say "Super Bowl or nothing", this year or any year. I've seen too many talented teams that should have rolled to a championship lay a stinkbomb at the wrong time, or have a player from the other team play out of his mind and carry his team to an improbable victory. Injuries play a part too; remember the ;76 Steelers without Franco and Rocky in the AFC Championship? If they lose on a last-second field goal to the Chiefs or the Pats in the AFC title game, or to the Rams in the Super Bowl, I won't call the season a waste. Coming out flat like they did last year against Jacksonville is another matter. It all depends on how they lose, if they do.


Rollers,


A serious question: Would a Super Bowl this year, or in any year Tomlin coaches the Steelers, mean less to you as a fan simply because Tomlin would be the coach
yes because i'm a racist
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Krunch
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12-19-2018, 03:48 AM

(12-18-2018, 10:11 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Tim,

I'm not the type to say "Super Bowl or nothing", this year or any year. I've seen too many talented teams that should have rolled to a championship lay a stinkbomb at the wrong time, or have a player from the other team play out of his mind and carry his team to an improbable victory. Injuries play a part too; remember the ;76 Steelers without Franco and Rocky in the AFC Championship? If they lose on a last-second field goal to the Chiefs or the Pats in the AFC title game, or to the Rams in the Super Bowl, I won't call the season a waste. Coming out flat like they did last year against Jacksonville is another matter. It all depends on how they lose, if they do.


Rollers,


A serious question: Would a Super Bowl this year, or in any year Tomlin coaches the Steelers, mean less to you as a fan simply because Tomlin would be the coach?

I would view the Super Bowl Victory as being won, "In Spite Of Management."  In other words the players themselves mustering up the drive and heart to victory.  Tomlin could change my mind if there were some obvious coaching strategy, personnel decisions and in-game adjustments that led to the victory, but won't hold my breath for that.  I hope that I get the chance to be either right or wrong though with #7 coming to fruition!


"Just give me a six-pack and 30 minutes to rest and lets go out and play 'em again!"  
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Garrett Garlits
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12-19-2018, 07:00 AM

Krunch,

If you have to coach a team as hard as you seem to be suggesting, they're probably not Super Bowl caliber anyway. It's always best for the coach to just get the hell out of the way on gameday and let the players do their thing. I don't believe in a whole lot of in-game adjustments, most of which are simple reminders of what a team hasn't been doing rather than full-blown strategic shifts. The time to really coach is in practice during the week, and it's the assistants who should be doing the lion's share of it except if a head coach doubles as a team's playcaller on offense or defense. In other words, those who think that Tomlin should be anywhere near a whiteboard or a tablet while a game is going on are full of it. That's either Butler, Fichtner, or Smith, plus their various assistants. Standing on the sidelines, watching the action, and (yes) cheerleading are the only things he should be doing during the game.

(Before anyone brings up Belichick, I'm firmly in the "where the hell would he be without Brady?" camp. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, since he was a mediocre coach at best in Cleveland. I don't buy for a second that he got smarter in the five years between coaching jobs, although he may have gotten more experienced in skirting the rules and blatant cheating.)

.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 07:10 AM by Garrett Garlits.)
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bksteeler
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12-19-2018, 10:45 AM

Ummm... Time management should be left to the coordinators?

Decisions on whether to kick field goals/punts or go for it on fourth down should be left to the coordinators? Connected to that, if the head coach feels he wants to go for it on fourth down (because for example, they're between the opponent's 40-30), he shouldn't tell the OC to call his third down play accordingly?

Decisions on whether to kick off or onside kick should be left to the coordinators?

When failing plays and strategies are stubbornly being held to by the coordinators in-game, the HC should just shut up and let them continue with those failing strategies?

I mean, at the very least, I think the HC should be handling all these kinds of things in-game. If he's not, he might as well pick up pom-poms and join the cheerleaders on the sideline.
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Garrett Garlits
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12-19-2018, 11:55 AM

About the coordinators, yes. It may sound stupid, but I don't hear much about head coaches vetoing the strategies plotted by their coordinators during the game, especially when there are only seconds in which to make a decision. Coaches who respect their coordinators just don't do that; they trust that their players know enough football and are good enough athletes to overcome those deficiencies and make plays regardless. If they aren't and games are lost, coaches accept that and try to do better next week or the following season.


I'm at a loss as to how to answer the rest of your post. It's not that you're wrong, but the type of things you mention aren't what the original poster was talking about. He was specifically referring to calling the plays for the offensive, defensive, and special teams units on the field, not executive decisions like the ones you cite.

I feel a bit like I'm being trapped into admitting that either Tomlin is a bad coach or I'm a fool for not agreeing that he has shortcomings which should get him fired. Well, I won't do either. To me, Tomlin is a superior coach when he wins and a very good coach at worst when he loses. As long as he does the former more often than the latter, even his worst mistakes don't mean a damn thing to me.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 12:02 PM by Garrett Garlits.)
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bksteeler
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12-19-2018, 12:48 PM

I would generally agree that a coach probably shouldn't be vetoing a call as it is being made by a coordinator. If that's all you're saying, fine.

But when the offensive or defensive group is off the field, he should be telling the OC or DC if something isn't working. All it takes is a sentence or two. "You know, we should probably stop allowing our linebackers to cover Keenan Allen."

And if they have no contingencies for that kind of matchup exploiting their planned coverages, something is seriously wrong. As a defensive coach, I can't imagine him not even thinking of that possibility throughout the week of practice.

Moreover, if he is not calling plays (and he apparently doesn't), he definitely needs to be doing all the "executive" stuff I mentioned, and do it well. If he can't, he needs to hire people to do that for him.

If you don't know or acknowledge your own weaknesses as a head coach that's a serious problem. Unless you know that, you will never address your problems. My issue with Tomlin is that he doesn't seem to acknowledge his problems as a coach. Most times, he seems to double down and say he wasn't wrong, particularly with time management.

My other question is, "Does he have enough of Ben's respect that he can jump down Ben's throat when he makes a bad decision, and have Ben listen?" If he has, I haven't seen the results on the field.

And I don't want to hear "Ben is Ben. He can't change at this point."

For years, Arians essentially said, "48 sacks a year is unavoidable with Ben. You can't teach him to do otherwise. To do so would ruin him." (And he even brought up an example from his old coaching days to try to prove his point).

Well, that was apparently proven wrong.

Why not reducing picks? Particularly stupid ones?

I think that Tomlin is generally a good coach. But if Tomlin can't start doing all that, it's going to be hard to win a championship. It would be hard enough if he made most of the right decisions. Players still have to execute.

But to me, he has to start by putting them in the best position to win. And that means doing all the "executive" things. And many times, it's failures in those areas that have cost us opportunities at a championship time and again over the last 8 years.
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Garrett Garlits
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12-19-2018, 01:17 PM

I'm not really sure who Ben respects at this point. I have a feeling that if Tomlin jumped down his throat it would be the last we'd see of him in a Steeler uniform. He has his rings, his money, and his spot in Canton, and he'll play the game on his terms and his terms alone, which is what I think he meant with his remarks about throwing interceptions not being a problem for him. If Tomlin and the Rooneys don't like it, they're free to try to win next year (or whenever he retires) with Josh Dobbs, Mason Rudolph, or whoever else they choose.

As for his decision making, he's made the right decisions eight times this year and he hasn''t six times, counting the tie in Cleveland. Let's hope he makes it nine in New Orleans this week.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2018, 01:20 PM by Garrett Garlits.)
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bksteeler
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12-19-2018, 01:28 PM

If Ben truly respects no one, I see no more championships for him. He'll be just like Favre in his years without Holmgren. Getting close, but always making the throw that costs the team the game.

I love watching Ben play. He's an amazing player. But I truly hold my breath every time he drops back, just waiting for the next bad pass to come.

You just don't say that with the other elite quarterbacks like Brady and Rodgers. They can pass 20 straight times and you're still not worried about a pick. You simply can't say that about Ben, which is why I have said before and say again, they need balance. He threw two bad balls that were picked against New England. I hate to think what would have happened if he threw 50 times.

Well, two games to go. We may need both to make the playoffs. Slip up once, and there's a good chance we're out. Time will tell.
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Chucktownsteeler
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12-20-2018, 03:30 AM

I get it is a win over the Pasteristics***, but a littler better thrown ball at the end.....

We have to put teams away, what happened to 60 minute men??>?


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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(This post was last modified: 12-20-2018, 03:30 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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12-20-2018, 03:31 AM

Any way time to move on to the Saints, they're a bit better defensive team than the Pasteristics***.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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(This post was last modified: 12-20-2018, 03:31 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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12-20-2018, 06:54 AM

I noticed jv320i hasn't been around lately (not that I'm complaining). He was our resident Pasteritics*** fan.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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(This post was last modified: 12-20-2018, 06:54 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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