Enough Is Enough: Tomlin Must Go
Chucktownsteeler
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#61
01-04-2019, 04:28 AM

Crash - unless you were her doctor I don't think you can verify that.


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mcmillenandwife
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#62
01-04-2019, 05:33 AM

(01-04-2019, 04:28 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Crash - unless you were her doctor I don't think you can verify that.

No, he's correct. 

From Sports Illustrated:

"In Feb. 2010, a mole on Kaye’s skin had changed colors, and after a biopsy, they learned that not only was it melanoma, but that it had gotten into her bloodstream. Just five months later, Kaye passed away at the age of 54."
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Chucktownsteeler
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#63
01-04-2019, 05:35 AM

(01-04-2019, 05:33 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-04-2019, 04:28 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Crash - unless you were her doctor I don't think you can verify that.

No, he's correct. 

From Sports Illustrated:

"In Feb. 2010, a mole on Kaye’s skin had changed colors, and after a biopsy, they learned that not only was it melanoma, but that it had gotten into her bloodstream. Just five months later, Kaye passed away at the age of 54."

Well, not sure where I heard that from. That's 1 for Crash.

Roll Roll Roll Roll Roll Roll


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Tedmarx38
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#64
01-04-2019, 02:18 PM

(01-01-2019, 04:24 AM)We throw around “The Rooneys” like they’re some royal stable force, but they aren’t.  This current generation of them cares mostly about politics, image and commercialization, not winning. They also aren’t the most useful tools in the league ownership box as they’re short-sited and foolish. As creators of the Rooney Rule they’ll never fire Tomlin, who is woefully inadequate.  That’s unfair to him and to us.  Like a deer shot with a pellet gun, this mortally wounded beast will die a slow agonizing death unless someone gives it intensive care.  Another 100 PSL’s were listed on the marketplace yesterday.  We’re loyal until we realize that they think we’re stupid. Wrote:
(01-01-2019, 03:44 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Rollers,

You don't mean to say that if you owned the Steelers you'd actually listen for one second to a yahoo who compared your employees to wooden dolls? I've heard a lot of crap this season about the Steelers, including thinly veiled and overt racism directed against Tomlin, but that line of bilge absolutely takes the cake. Do us all a favor, Raynor; find another "product" to "consume" quick, fast, and in a hurry.


Sandfan actually said something interesting about a possible Tomlin trade, but that's another thing the Rooneys simply don't believe in. I think it's been outlawed by the NFL since the Gruden trade he mentioned, in any case.
can you read?  Point out where I said ANYTHING like you tried to attribute to me.  Sick of you racism card.  Last time I'll respond to anything you say here.  Everything is racism... thinly veiled meaning you read into it.  Just forget reading or replying to anything I say and I'll be overjoyed.  I served 24 years in the military did 4 combat tours and I served proudly with many black men.  We would have died for each other.  So tired of piss ants like you yapping about thing that aren't true and you know nothing about.  We never gave two shits about racism or color of skin or anything else.  We took care of each other and I'm PROUD to have served with black men, Latinos,  Asians, and any other ethnic group you can mention including those guy that were gay because that's another thing I never gave a damn about You?  I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
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mcmillenandwife
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#65
01-04-2019, 10:31 PM

(01-04-2019, 04:28 AM)Tedmarx38 wrote: Wrote: We throw around “The Rooneys” like they’re some royal stable force, but they aren’t.  This current generation of them cares mostly about politics, image and commercialization, not winning. They also aren’t the most useful tools in the league ownership box as they’re short-sited and foolish. As creators of the Rooney Rule they’ll never fire Tomlin, who is woefully inadequate.  That’s unfair to him and to us.  Like a deer shot with a pellet gun, this mortally wounded beast will die a slow agonizing death unless someone gives it intensive care.  Another 100 PSL’s were listed on the marketplace yesterday.  We’re loyal until we realize that they think we’re stupid.

Man, do I hope you're wrong about a lot of things. Sadly, much of what you say rings true, especially in the midst of the current team chaos (the likes of which I would've never expected from a Rooney-owned team).

I only know of the Rooney's what they've been. My assumption is that they care about winning, and despite my frustrations with some of our current struggles, I continue to believe that the desire to win is at the core of everything they do. But I also believe they are very focused on image and that they sometimes get torn between doing what they think "looks good" and will be acceptable to the sports media vs. what's the best way to win.

The picture you paint of dying a slow, agonizing death scares me the most. Ben has another Super Bowl win in him; I don't doubt that a bit. But it feels like ownership is content to let the team burn down around Roethlisberger because they don't have the courage to fire a coach who has lost the team.
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Rollers
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#66
01-05-2019, 12:36 AM

(01-04-2019, 10:31 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-04-2019, 04:28 AM)Tedmarx38 wrote: Wrote: We throw around “The Rooneys” like they’re some royal stable force, but they aren’t.  This current generation of them cares mostly about politics, image and commercialization, not winning. They also aren’t the most useful tools in the league ownership box as they’re short-sited and foolish. As creators of the Rooney Rule they’ll never fire Tomlin, who is woefully inadequate.  That’s unfair to him and to us.  Like a deer shot with a pellet gun, this mortally wounded beast will die a slow agonizing death unless someone gives it intensive care.  Another 100 PSL’s were listed on the marketplace yesterday.  We’re loyal until we realize that they think we’re stupid.

Man, do I hope you're wrong about a lot of things. Sadly, much of what you say rings true, especially in the midst of the current team chaos (the likes of which I would've never expected from a Rooney-owned team).

I only know of the Rooney's what they've been. My assumption is that they care about winning, and despite my frustrations with some of our current struggles, I continue to believe that the desire to win is at the core of everything they do. But I also believe they are very focused on image and that they sometimes get torn between doing what they think "looks good" and will be acceptable to the sports media vs. what's the best way to win.

The picture you paint of dying a slow, agonizing death scares me the most. Ben has another Super Bowl win in him; I don't doubt that a bit. But it feels like ownership is content to let the team burn down around Roethlisberger because they don't have the courage to fire a coach who has lost the team.

They will sacrifice winning on the altar of political correctness.  You can take that to the bank.
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Garrett Garlits
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#67
01-05-2019, 02:19 AM

Rollers,

I don't plan to spontaneously combust any time soon, so you needn't waste your urine on me.

As for this debate about political correctness, you're all assuming that Art II is keeping a coach he knows full well to be completely incompetent, and has known that since the day Tomlin was hired. That's total balderdash. There's a difference between "incompetent" and "doesn't win enough to suit me". You can break down the minutia all you want, and I'm sure you'll find quite a few mistakes. But the man still did not lose ten games this year. Leaving ties aside, there have been plenty of teams over the years who have gone 10-6 or even 11-5 and either didn't make the playoffs or collected a so-called "participation trophy" by losing in the first round. I can think of at least two Patriots teams in the Belichick/Brady era who have done that, for example (To be fair, one of them was the year Brady tore up his knee, but God Almighty Belichick was still on the sidelines.)


If we're talking 6-9-1 or 7-9, your stuff about pandering to the sports media may have some merit. But to fire a coach with only six losses, even if one of them was to Oakland? THAT would be stupid, and Art II, whatever else he may or may not be, isn't stupid. And who says keeping Tomlin would look good to the media anyway? There re plenty of writers and broadcasters in this down who either want his power drastically reduced or for him to be fired outright.

I would say that keeping Tomlin is a reflection of Art II's determination to run HIS family business HIS way, regardless of what his sometimes overly emotional customers may think. The people posting to this thread aren't the one looking at this objectively, and they're not the ones who have to live with his decision. If one of us doesn't like what the team's doing, all we have to do is leave the room or the stadium, although I doubt doing so would change his mind one whit.

Remember one other thing: Roger Goodell has said that pro football in Pittsburgh WILL NOT exist without the Rooney family. Even if Art II leaves, there are still a whole big bunch of Rooneys that would be in charge long before new ownership with any power would ever see the light of day.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#68
01-05-2019, 04:43 AM

The bottom line is Rooney is the majority owner and he can hire/ fire any coach he wants.


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Crash
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#69
01-05-2019, 08:13 PM

Yup,

Art II has basically bought any shares from the partnership that has come available after Haslam bought the Browns and after the Panthers owner bought them from Richardson.

Not as many Rooney's are involved as before but Art II's son Danny Rooney who acts like an offensive assistant, is next in line.
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sandfan
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#70
01-09-2019, 01:07 AM

Trade Brown and Tomlin to the Jets. They need a new coach. They need a quality wr to complement their new qb. They have plenty of cash. They have their #1 draft choice in 2018. We could also ask for their #1 in 2020. That could position Pittsburgh to be in the run for a top QB like the fellow at Clemson should he come out early. They need to do something grand to satisfy their tv and fan base. What could be more grand than bringing these two on board?

I know this is unlikely. It's also unlikely Tomlin will refuse an extension despite under performing his assets. So the Tomlin saga could continue to drag on. I don't think he can reach a similar level of success elsewhere. The Brown affair is similar to the one created by Holmes. Except, in this case, I hope the team is able to get more than a 5th rounder for Brown.

My concept is wildly imaginative but, if I owned the team, I'd sure give it a shot. Plus, if these two are really worth what some on this board think, the Jets could be in position to challenge the Pats as Brady fades. Imagine that, some real competition in the AFC East!
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Garrett Garlits
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#71
01-09-2019, 01:47 AM

I don't think you're allowed to trade coaches anymore. If I remember correctly, the NFL banned the trading of coaches after the Raiders traded Gruden to Tampa.

Besides, if Tomlin has as many issues as you and others like you say he does, why would the Jets want him? After all, the only reason he won is because he inherited Cowher's players, including Ben. He can't win challenges, can't manage the clock, lets his players walk all over him, can't coach a good defense, and can't be easily understood when he talks. Who needs that, especially when it comes with a greedy, selfish, aging wide receiver who throws temper tantrums at his quarterback, among others? Sam Darnold would do backflips at the very idea, no doubt.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2019, 01:48 AM by Garrett Garlits.)
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sandfan
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#72
01-09-2019, 03:52 AM

Did a quick bit of research and found that teams can certainly trade a coach, even a head coach. From what I read many in the NFL community think highly of Tomlin. Unlike many on this board. We have experienced, up close and personal, too much of Tomlin's act and under performance of his teams.

The league seems to think he's great. If that's so he should be a very marketable commodity. Why not cash in and put a resource or two on the field who can help win games?
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sandfan
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#73
01-09-2019, 05:27 AM

The media and league like to rave about head coaches who build a tree of staff coaches who move up into more important gigs. I can only recall 2 instances of notable coach changes under Tomlin. Lebeau was forced out into a lateral position. Arians moved up into a head coaching spot.

I might be wrong but I think that's it. For a guy who is supposed to be one of the top coaches in the league with a dozen or so years experience that seems to be a pretty thin list. Is it a possibly a sign of an inability to develop talent? Or is this tree scenario just not that meaningful?
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gino111f
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#74
01-23-2019, 11:19 AM

Thank you so much for posting all these great Steelers Games. I seen ur record when attending Steelers Games, Steelers r 2-0 when I attended games so far...hoping to get back for another game in 2019. Weird thing is I find myself watching painful losses and it's actually helped me get over those games. Thanks again for posting
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NFL2000
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#75
01-23-2019, 03:16 PM

(12-31-2018, 02:33 PM)RaynorShyne Wrote: I've not been on much in the last 10 days.  I'm dumbfounded.  "How a team with so much talent..." - if I never hear those words again it'll be too soon.

Forgive JuJu for the fumble?  Sorry - no.  He makes a boatload of cash to NOT fumble.  

Forgive Ben for quite often forgetting what color his team wears and tossing friggin beachballs around?  No.  A "Hall of Famer" doesn't DO THAT as often as he does.

The LeVeon Bell.....mess.  Everyone there is to fault.

The buck stops at leadership.  The Jet's tossed their head-coach after ONE SEASON because they didn't improve.     WE TIED THE BROWNS AND LOST TO THE RAIDERS.  Fire Tomlin.   Fire Butler.  Let Ben retire.  

It's rebuild time.  We got a good young RB in Connor - got one good young receiver in JuJu.  Got an offensive line that can keep a first round QB upright.  Spend every other single pick on the best defender available.

We pick before the Colts.  We pick before Houston.  #20 over all
The Jets didn't toss their head coach after one season. Todd Bowles was there for 4 years.
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NFL2000
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#76
01-23-2019, 03:59 PM

If the Steelers didn't fire Bill Cowher for two 6-10 seasons, one 7-9 season, along with countless playoff collapses/ failures, than there was almost no chance Mike Tomlin would be gone after a 9-6-1 season. I can remember when Steelers fans wanting Chuck Noll gone after missing the playoffs 4 straight years with horrible losing records. What did the Steelers organization do? They stayed the course with Chuck Noll. This is one of the mean reasons why the Steelers are arguably one of the most respected franchises in any sport. Their decision-making as an organization doesn't seem to be reactionary. I'm not saying everything they do is perfect, but it's far better than most.
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mcmillenandwife
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#77
01-23-2019, 05:32 PM

(01-23-2019, 03:59 PM)NFL2000 Wrote: If the Steelers didn't fire Bill Cowher for two 6-10 seasons, one 7-9 season, along with countless playoff collapses/ failures, than there was almost no chance Mike Tomlin would be gone after a 9-6-1 season. I can remember when Steelers fans wanting Chuck Noll gone after missing the playoffs 4 straight years with horrible losing records. What did the Steelers organization do? They stayed the course with Chuck Noll. This is one of the mean reasons why the Steelers are arguably one of the most respected franchises in any sport. Their decision-making as an organization doesn't seem to be reactionary. I'm not saying everything they do is perfect, but it's far better than most.

Just a little reminder: Bill Cowher's losing seasons came with Kordell Stewart, Mike Tomczak and Tommy Maddox under center. None of these guys were really qualified to be more than career back-ups, but he also made the playoffs with EACH of them. 

When Cowher FINALLY got Ben, he took that 6-10 team from the previous year and went 16-2 to the AFC Championship with a rookie QB, went 15-5 and won the Super Bowl Ben's following year, and then had the 3rd season with the motorcycle accident/appendix/concussions/Super Bowl hangover (and still finished 8-8). 

Chuck Noll's QB's during the "dark years" were Mark Malone (who Noll also somehow coached to an AFC Championship game), David Woodley, Scott Campbell, Bubby Brister and Steve Bono. Noll also coached Brister to being a John Elway comeback away from the AFC Championship in '89. Chuck also had an unmatched Super Bowl pedigree. 

And then there's Tomlin. A Hall of Fame QB his entire career. He got off to a great start with a Super Bowl win in his 2nd year (thank you coach, fantastic job), 1 Super Bowl loss (I think he got the 2010 team to over-achieve) and then... pppffffbbbbbttttt. Something changed. IMO, Tomlin has mostly squandered the last 8 years, despite teams loaded with talent. 

I agree with you that the Steelers remain respected (despite the drama-induced black eye this year) and I think (hope) they remain one of the best organizations in sports. Tomlin is also still a good coach capable of winning. I'm just not sure he's capable with THIS team. I feel like he's run his course with the Steelers. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
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mcmillenandwife
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#78
01-23-2019, 05:34 PM

(01-23-2019, 11:19 AM)gino111f Wrote: Thank you so much for posting all these great Steelers Games. I seen ur record when attending Steelers Games, Steelers r 2-0 when I attended games so far...hoping to get back for another game in 2019. Weird thing is I find myself watching painful losses and it's actually helped me get over those games. Thanks again for posting

Glad you're enjoying the games, Gino!  Thumbsup
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Crash
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#79
01-24-2019, 12:05 AM

I will say this in defense of Tomlin, something did change: Art II hired Haley against Tomlin's wishes.

No one likes Haley. EVERYWHERE he's been it's been the same thing: Players hate him, assistant coaches hate him, same assistant coaches begin looking for the door to rid themselves of working with him.

It happened in Pittsburgh also.

Tomlin's problem NOW, is if he's really calling the defense? Then he's not very good at it.
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