The Mike Tomlin Paradox
mcmillenandwife
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#31
05-23-2017, 12:49 AM

(05-22-2017, 11:56 PM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:48 PM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:40 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I was SO glad to see Bruce Arians go. Couldn't STAND his play calling. 

That said, I wasn't thrilled to get Haley. At all. Between the two, I think I'd take Haley. We just need to get the red zone problems fixed.

As I have stated many times, I would not want BA anywhere near my QB under any circumstances. I've never known a coach that could attract as many offensive lineman totally deficient in their pass blocking. It truly boggles the mind. Do they follow him around or something?

Yes, I miss those perennial 12-4 seasons with the occasional Lombardi. 

ESPN has a great show on BA over the week-end. Also, I saw the "Football Life" Chuck Noll on the NFL channel last Thursday. The emperor was truly a renesicence man, wine conisuer, accomplished chef, symphony conductor, and very late in life became a pilot. Most importantly he was the consummate teacher of football and family man.


OC-wise, Whisenhunt was the man. Great sense of timing, great ability to maximize talent. 

We won the Super Bowl in spite of Arians, not because of him. I know Ben loved Bruce, but Ben was/is a much better play caller than Arians will ever be. Our offense functioned best when Bruce wasn't calling the plays.  Laugh

The best thing about Arians is that his shit system allowed us to come back and win the 2002 Playoff game vs. Cleveland (when he was their OC) because he couldn't muster enough of a running game to run out the clock on leads of 24-7 and 33-21.  Pi_bigsmile
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Crash
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#32
05-24-2017, 05:46 PM

Quote:That just so happened to be attached to a world class defense.....

What's sad is this fallacy above totally changed this team.

It changed Ben's career.  

And not for the better.

Quote:Don't you think it just might be a possibility that the Rooney's may have thought that the best way to take advantage of their $100 MILLION dollar investment was not to have him driven into the ground multiple times a game?

At the expense of being a legitimate SB contender by hiring an idiot?  By telling their $100 MILLION dollar investment to change the way he plays that was the reason they gave him $100 MILLION dollars in the first place?  

Haley only knows two ways to protect Ben: Handing the ball off more, and WR screens.  Obviously it's worked out so well.  

The front office neglected the offensive line for years.  Somehow that became Ben Roethlisberger's and Bruce Arians fault.  

Everyone knew LeGarrette Blount was a turd.  But he passed the eyeball test.  He weighed 250 pounds.  

But, once a turd, always a turd, and after he quit, you could say they still haven't found a reliable #2 back in the five seasons of Haley's tenure here.  

I said in 2012, that they should have traded for Darren Sproles.  Decent runner, great pass catcher out of the backfield, and a Pro Bowl returner which keeps Antonio Brown off that duty and you aren't losing anything as far as talent at that special teams position.  

But he didn't weigh 250 pounds, so no need to bring him in I guess.   Thumbdown
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2017, 05:59 PM by Crash.)
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dbsfgyd1
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#33
05-31-2017, 04:05 AM

(05-24-2017, 05:46 PM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:That just so happened to be attached to a world class defense.....

What's sad is this fallacy above totally changed this team.

It changed Ben's career.  

And not for the better.

Quote:Don't you think it just might be a possibility that the Rooney's may have thought that the best way to take advantage of their $100 MILLION dollar investment was not to have him driven into the ground multiple times a game?

At the expense of being a legitimate SB contender by hiring an idiot?  By telling their $100 MILLION dollar investment to change the way he plays that was the reason they gave him $100 MILLION dollars in the first place?  

Haley only knows two ways to protect Ben: Handing the ball off more, and WR screens.  Obviously it's worked out so well.  

The front office neglected the offensive line for years.  Somehow that became Ben Roethlisberger's and Bruce Arians fault.  

Everyone knew LeGarrette Blount was a turd.  But he passed the eyeball test.  He weighed 250 pounds.  

But, once a turd, always a turd, and after he quit, you could say they still haven't found a reliable #2 back in the five seasons of Haley's tenure here.  

I said in 2012, that they should have traded for Darren Sproles.  Decent runner, great pass catcher out of the backfield, and a Pro Bowl returner which keeps Antonio Brown off that duty and you aren't losing anything as far as talent at that special teams position.  

But he didn't weigh 250 pounds, so no need to bring him in I guess.   Thumbdown
E: Bubble screens and hand offs: Arians never calls those plays. Right?

RE: Neglected OL: Maybe, but what about Cleveland, Indianapolis, and now Arizona? Does he only work for teams that have bad offensive lines? Do you realize he was quoted in the media  he expects his offensive line unit to be responsible for blocking 6 guys, and just maybe that might be the reason his QBs take a major beating?

RE: Player management: The last time I checked, Haley doesn't work in  player personnel.

RE:  By telling their $100 MILLION dollar investment to change the way he plays that was the reason they gave him $100 MILLION dollars in the first place?

You don't think after the 200th sack Arians wasn't given that memos too? It's pretty obvious the reason Arians is gone is because he IGNORED it.

RE: Nepotism: There is no way Haley got his job because his dad work at the firm. Unless you have some first hand proof, that is ludicrous statement. Other than a blood relative of the Rooney's or the McGinley's, this isn't exactly the course of business at Steelers Inc.

Look, I will agree with you on one point and one point only. Haley is not the best OC we've had. That said, he's better than most, and without a doubt, a major upgrade of Arians.  But of course, you are entitled to your opinion.
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Crash
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#34
05-31-2017, 04:52 AM

How is he a major upgrade? Be specific.

After the 12 TD's in two weeks the Steelers went 11 of their next 16 games, with 20 points OR LESS, on offense.

If that's Arians? He's destroyed.

Steelers are currently on a 20 points or less on offense streak in 14 of their last 23 road games.

UNDER 20 points, in 5 of 6 playoff games with Haley.

All Todd Haley has on Bruce Arians, is his father.

Better than most? 21 head coaching jobs have been available since the 2014 season ended.

Haley can't get an INTERVIEW, much less an offer.

The rest of the NFL agrees with me.

If Arians pulled the same stuff Haley has during his five years here? He would have gotten ripped. Haley for some bizarre reason, gets a free pass while Tomlin and Roethlisberger get the blame.

It's simple, fire Haley, promote Fichtner, hire Batch as QB coach, win the AFC, and send Ben out the way he deserves to be sent out, as a champion.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#35
05-31-2017, 05:25 AM

Love him or hate him Haley is doing the job the Rooney's hired him for.
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dbsfgyd1
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#36
05-31-2017, 05:29 AM

(05-31-2017, 04:52 AM)Crash Wrote: How is he a major upgrade?  Be specific.  

After the 12 TD's in two weeks the Steelers went 11 of their next 16 games, with 20 points OR LESS, on offense.  

If that's Arians? He's destroyed.  

Steelers are currently on a 20 points or less on offense streak in 14 of their last 23 road games.  

UNDER 20 points, in 5 of 6 playoff games with Haley.  

All Todd Haley has on Bruce Arians, is his father.

Better than most?  21 head coaching jobs have been available since the 2014 season ended.  

Haley can't get an INTERVIEW, much less an offer.  

The rest of the NFL agrees with me.  

If Arians pulled the same stuff Haley has during his five years here?  He would have gotten ripped.  Haley for some bizarre reason, gets a free pass while Tomlin and Roethlisberger get the blame.  

It's simple, fire Haley, promote Fichtner, hire Batch as QB coach, win the AFC, and send Ben out the way he deserves to be sent out, as a champion.
I don't have to be specific. Actions speak louder than words. No, he was not hired  because of his dad. Secondly, if he was that bad he'd be fired. As you keep posting them, there are plenty of warts there to see on tape, and he isn't exactly the only OC out there.

You need to get over the fact that Arians WAS fired, and Haley is STILL employed. Further, if Arians puts up another year like he just did, he's going to get fired again.

So far the only compelling reason you've managed to come up with for him sticking around is his father being a formal employee, sorry you got to do better than that. My guess, and that's all it is, is they are happy with the job he's doing. And if they are happy, I'm not as much of an egotist to suggest the Steelers don't know what they are doing. They do have a pretty good track record from what I can tell.


As for Fichtner, talent tends floats to it's own level. There is a reason he is not a coordinator. It's not like they are pounding down his door either.

And before you regurgitate his Memphis spread BS, that was a loaded team in a bush league.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#37
05-31-2017, 05:31 AM

(05-31-2017, 05:29 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(05-31-2017, 04:52 AM)Crash Wrote: How is he a major upgrade?  Be specific.  

After the 12 TD's in two weeks the Steelers went 11 of their next 16 games, with 20 points OR LESS, on offense.  

If that's Arians? He's destroyed.  

Steelers are currently on a 20 points or less on offense streak in 14 of their last 23 road games.  

UNDER 20 points, in 5 of 6 playoff games with Haley.  

All Todd Haley has on Bruce Arians, is his father.

Better than most?  21 head coaching jobs have been available since the 2014 season ended.  

Haley can't get an INTERVIEW, much less an offer.  

The rest of the NFL agrees with me.  

If Arians pulled the same stuff Haley has during his five years here?  He would have gotten ripped.  Haley for some bizarre reason, gets a free pass while Tomlin and Roethlisberger get the blame.  

It's simple, fire Haley, promote Fichtner, hire Batch as QB coach, win the AFC, and send Ben out the way he deserves to be sent out, as a champion.
I don't have to be specific. Actions speak louder than words. No, he was not hired  because of his dad. Secondly, if he was that bad he'd be fired. As you keep posting them, there are plenty of warts there to see on tape, and he isn't exactly the only OC out there.

You need to get over the fact that Arians WAS fired, and Haley is STILL employed. Further, if Arians puts up another year like he just did, he's going to get fired again.

So far the only compelling reason you've managed to come up with for him sticking around is his father being a formal employee, sorry you got to do better than that. My guess, and that's all it is, is they are happy with the job he's doing. And if they are happy, I'm not as much of an egotist to suggest the Steelers don't know what they are doing. They do have a pretty good track record from what I can tell.


As for Fichtner, talent tends floats to it's own level. There is a reason he is not a coordinator. It's not like they are pounding down his door either.

And before you regurgitate his Memphis spread BS, that was a loaded team in a bush league.

The Cardinals had a good draft and should be very good this year. BA will be fine.
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dbsfgyd1
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#38
05-31-2017, 05:32 AM

(05-23-2017, 12:49 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:56 PM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:48 PM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:40 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I was SO glad to see Bruce Arians go. Couldn't STAND his play calling. 

That said, I wasn't thrilled to get Haley. At all. Between the two, I think I'd take Haley. We just need to get the red zone problems fixed.

As I have stated many times, I would not want BA anywhere near my QB under any circumstances. I've never known a coach that could attract as many offensive lineman totally deficient in their pass blocking. It truly boggles the mind. Do they follow him around or something?

Yes, I miss those perennial 12-4 seasons with the occasional Lombardi. 

ESPN has a great show on BA over the week-end. Also, I saw the "Football Life" Chuck Noll on the NFL channel last Thursday. The emperor was truly a renesicence man, wine conisuer, accomplished chef, symphony conductor, and very late in life became a pilot. Most importantly he was the consummate teacher of football and family man.


OC-wise, Whisenhunt was the man. Great sense of timing, great ability to maximize talent. 

We won the Super Bowl in spite of Arians, not because of him. I know Ben loved Bruce, but Ben was/is a much better play caller than Arians will ever be. Our offense functioned best when Bruce wasn't calling the plays.  Laugh

The best thing about Arians is that his shit system allowed us to come back and win the 2002 Playoff game vs. Cleveland (when he was their OC) because he couldn't muster enough of a running game to run out the clock on leads of 24-7 and 33-21.  Pi_bigsmile
OC-wise, Whisenhunt was the man. Great sense of timing, great ability to maximize talent.

I'll take Erhardt, before the Chan Gailey influence.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#39
05-31-2017, 05:36 AM

How about Joe Walton?
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Crash
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#40
05-31-2017, 05:46 AM

Quote:I don't have to be specific. Actions speak louder than words.

You're exactly right.  And what I listed specifically above.  Does all my talking for me.  

21 jobs, no interviews.  

Nothing else needs to be said really.
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dbsfgyd1
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#41
05-31-2017, 05:56 AM

That proves nothing. So there are 21 offensive coordinator jobs open in the NFL? Even if there were, why would he want to leave? AND if there were 21 job postings available, that means there are 21 offensive coordinators looking for work. Right? Most of which would be better than Hayley.

Or maybe, he doesn't want to leave? Could it be he actually likes his job and who he is working for? Is it possible he has declined requests? It's obviously, the Steelers are not forcing him out.

Keep trying chuckles!
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mcmillenandwife
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#42
05-31-2017, 06:24 AM

We've had exactly 3 offensive coordinators that I've liked:

  1. Terry Bradshaw  Pi_bigsmile
  2. Chan Gailey (the mad scientist behind "Slash" and the X-factor that got us to S.B. XXX in spite of Ron Erhardt)
  3. Ken Whisenhunt

I have very little use for the rest of them.
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dbsfgyd1
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#43
05-31-2017, 06:40 AM

What got us to XXX was the defense showed up in the AFFCG for a change. I still have visions of Alfred Papuno catching that pass and Lake with this stupid look on his face. OR, how about that corner in the KC playoff game that got a personal foul call at a critical juncture. 4th down play on a no catchable ball? Those early 90's teams were solid but had some inopportune major gaffes that cost them 2 more trips to the show.

I like the Slash stuff too. Chandler got a little too enamored with it, and like most novelties, the League caught up with it, and it made a QB of Kordell.

BTW, what was you opinion of Kordell? IMO, he may not have been the best traditional QB I've ever seen, but I think he proved you could win with him. I never got all crap that was thrown his way.
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Rollers
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#44
05-31-2017, 08:18 AM

(05-31-2017, 06:24 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: We've had exactly 3 offensive coordinators that I've liked:

  1. Terry Bradshaw  Pi_bigsmile
  2. Chan Gailey (the mad scientist behind "Slash" and the X-factor that got us to S.B. XXX in spite of Ron Erhardt)
  3. Ken Whisenhunt

I have very little use for the rest of them.

THIS was a great post.
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mcmillenandwife
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#45
05-31-2017, 09:11 AM

(05-31-2017, 06:40 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: What got us to XXX was the defense showed up in the AFFCG for a change. I still have visions of Alfred Papuno catching that pass and Lake with this stupid look on his face.  

Well... you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz, I guess. We were dominating them. San Diego tested us deep on their second offensive play of the game. It was clear from that first drive that their plan was to try to hit a couple of deep ones against a blitz. It was really their only chance at victory and it was the Achilles heel of our defense. The Papuno TD was the perfect call at the perfect time. EVERYBODY on the defense bit on that play action. Credit to San Diego. That play didn't give them the lead, however. We were still up 13-10 and I felt like, at that point, we could've/should've taken ourselves out of so many single coverage schemes. They were NOT moving the ball against us. At all. Which made the TD McKyer gave up even more frustrating. We didn't need to be in such an aggressive play call at that point.  

Still the most frustrating loss of my lifetime. The best team did NOT win that game.


(05-31-2017, 06:40 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: I like the Slash stuff too. Chandler got a little too enamored with it, and like most novelties, the League caught up with it, and it made a QB  of Kordell. 


I think what made Kordell a QB was O'Donnell leaving (idiot) and Mike Tomczak being our plan B in '96. I loved T-Zack's heart, but he was NOT a starting NFL QB.  Laugh  Gailey piloted Kordell Stewart all the way to the AFC Championship in his first year as a starter, and then Gailey was off to Dallas as a head coach. Kordell was never the same under Ray Sherman  Sick and Kevin Gilbride.  Sick Sick Sick



(05-31-2017, 06:40 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: BTW, what was you opinion of Kordell? IMO, he may not have been the best traditional QB I've ever seen, but I think he proved you could win with him.  I never got all crap that was thrown his way.


I liked him at the time. I did my best to support him. I was very excited about him early. He was an exciting young player in '97 and seemed to have a bright future. But he somehow never progressed. He didn't get better, and defenses figured out how to scheme him. And the fans were brutal toward him. I think the riches to rags fall of going from being the toast of the town as Slash to someone who was getting beer thrown on him by fans at the game destroyed his confidence. Even during his brief 2001 renaissance, you could kinda tell that "something" was not quite wrapped tight. He was really solid throughout most of the '01 season and then suddenly threw a bushel of INTs in the last 2 regular season games against shitty teams. It carried into the playoffs and then into next season... and Tommy Maddox got the nod and that was all she wrote for Kordell. 

The rap on him was that he wasn't a hard worker. I tend to believe it. I will always have a warm spot in my heart for him for his time as Slash and the spark he brought to the team, but my opinion of him has dimmed considerably over time. I think a little more attention to detail could've gone a long way with him.
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Crash
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#46
05-31-2017, 09:22 AM

(05-31-2017, 05:56 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: That proves nothing. So there are 21 offensive coordinator jobs open in the NFL? Even if there were, why would he want to leave?  AND if there were 21 job postings available, that means there are 21 offensive coordinators looking for work.  Right? Most of which would be better than Hayley.

Or maybe, he doesn't want to leave? Could it be he actually likes his job and who he is working for? Is it possible he has declined requests?  It's obviously, the Steelers are not forcing him out.

Keep trying chuckles!


Last season he did say he would be interested in interviewing for a head coaching job for 2017, this after he claimed he wasn't interested in a head coaching job for 2016 after no teams were calling him.  

Simply put, the lack of offensive production, coupled with his bizarre off the field life?  Todd Haley isn't worth the trouble.   He should have been shit-canned the minute he missed the team plane to Baltimore.  Funny how his Dad's buddies in the local media covered it up for a week.  PFT were the ones who broke the story.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#47
05-31-2017, 11:40 AM

Again, I am no Haley fan ( I once called his offense Haley's vomit). But he is doing the exact job he was hired for. Neither he nor Tomlin are going anywhere, anytime soon, unless it is on their own volition.
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dbsfgyd1
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#48
05-31-2017, 12:49 PM

(05-31-2017, 09:22 AM)Crash Wrote:
(05-31-2017, 05:56 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: That proves nothing. So there are 21 offensive coordinator jobs open in the NFL? Even if there were, why would he want to leave?  AND if there were 21 job postings available, that means there are 21 offensive coordinators looking for work.  Right? Most of which would be better than Hayley.

Or maybe, he doesn't want to leave? Could it be he actually likes his job and who he is working for? Is it possible he has declined requests?  It's obviously, the Steelers are not forcing him out.

Keep trying chuckles!


Last season he did say he would be interested in interviewing for a head coaching job for 2017, this after he claimed he wasn't interested in a head coaching job for 2016 after no teams were calling him.  

Simply put, the lack of offensive production, coupled with his bizarre off the field life?  Todd Haley isn't worth the trouble.   He should have been shit-canned the minute he missed the team plane to Baltimore.  Funny how his Dad's buddies in the local media covered it up for a week.  PFT were the ones who broke the story.

Like I said, talent floats to it's own level. I wouldn't want him for a head coach either being perfectly honest. But maybe, you could be right under the "Peter Principle" ( huge 70'sook) where in corporate America, you are promoted to you level of incompetence, and and end up staying there. LOL!! Have a good one Crash. You can have the last word. I B dun!
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Crash
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#49
05-31-2017, 01:03 PM

How? Ben's missing more games due to injury with Haley than he did with Arians. He's also leaving games injured. Ben had one bad year leaving games hurt for Arians, 2008, that was also the year Marvel Smith was injured during the year, Kendall Simmons was injured during the year, Justin Hartwig replaced Sean Mahan after one year at center and Alan Faneca left as a free agent during the summer.

Sometimes it takes a full year for an offensive line to gel. The 2008 Steelers were forced, on the fly, to use backups.

Using Art's own criteria Haley has FAILED in what he was supposed to do.

The problem with Haley, is that he's too preoccupied with getting the proper credit. That's been his mantra since he was hired in Kansas City. He ran off Chan Gailey and Charlie Weis, because he's a self absorbed buffoon.

He needs to realize this isn't recess, the cute little grade school formations don't work.

Stick to good, sound, fundamental football, and stop the self-promoting bullshit.

The Christmas game is a perfect example. Mixed and matched his pets into the game for 45 minutes, but then with their season on the line #45, #74, #82, and #85 all went to the bench, and Ben and his wides saved their season in less than a quarter.

I'll take Ben with any three wides you give him, and they'll move the ball better, than Haley's constant shuffling of the deck.

Just like the Dallas game, that was probably the BEST GAME Haley's had since he's been here, because he kept it simple, Ben and the wides all night. The backup swill on the bench. But the defense blew that one.

Charlie Batch, who played for Haley said it best. When Ben's calling the plays, and they use the wides that lessens Haley's involvement. And he doesn't like it.

The guy is a former college golfer and an interim women's college golf coach. That's fine, go coach golf. Nothing wrong with that if that's your expertise.

But as an OC in the NFL with HIS system? He's completely in over his head. And the rest of the NFL agrees.

Tomlin wanted Kirby Wilson.

The offensive leaders (Said to be Ben, Miller, and Pouncey at the time) at a sit-down with Tomlin/Art II lobbied for Randy Fichtner after the horrific fire at Wilson's home (He was burned so badly rumors are the bottoms of his feet were down to the bone.) ended his chance.

Art II chose Haley.

Of the three options above, Art II is the last one I'd listen to.

The old saying goes, players play, coaches coach, and owners OWN. Stay in the owners box and reap the rewards that your hired football people provide you.

Art II forgot that, and the team has taken a giant step back in the last five years compared to the previous five years as a result.

But Tomlin will be the one who pays the price for it.
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Crash
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#50
05-31-2017, 01:05 PM

Quote:Like I said, talent floats to it's own level.

I agree, and the Steelers have taken a step back as an organization with Todd Haley on the payroll.

Get a legitimate football coach to run the offense, and not some dope who's only here because of his father.
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dbsfgyd1
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#51
06-01-2017, 03:28 AM

(05-31-2017, 01:03 PM)Crash Wrote: How?  Ben's missing more games due to injury with Haley than he did with Arians.  He's also leaving games injured. Ben had one bad year leaving games hurt for Arians, 2008, that was also the year Marvel Smith was injured during the year, Kendall Simmons was injured during the year, Justin Hartwig replaced Sean Mahan after one year at center and Alan Faneca left as a free agent during the summer.  

Sometimes it takes a full year for an offensive line to gel. The 2008 Steelers were forced, on the fly, to use backups.  
   
Using Art's own criteria Haley has FAILED in what he was supposed to do.  

The problem with Haley, is that he's too preoccupied with getting the proper credit.  That's been his mantra since he was hired in Kansas City.  He ran off Chan Gailey and Charlie Weis, because he's a self absorbed buffoon.    

He needs to realize this isn't recess, the cute little grade school formations don't work.

Stick to good, sound, fundamental football, and stop the self-promoting bullshit.  

The Christmas game is a perfect example.  Mixed and matched his pets into the game for 45 minutes, but then with their season on the line #45, #74, #82, and #85 all went to the bench, and Ben and his wides saved their season in less than a quarter.  

I'll take Ben with any three wides you give him, and they'll move the ball better, than Haley's constant shuffling of the deck.  

Just like the Dallas game, that was probably the BEST GAME Haley's had since he's been here, because he kept it simple, Ben and the wides all night.  The backup swill on the bench.  But the defense blew that one.  

Charlie Batch, who played for Haley said it best.  When Ben's calling the plays, and they use the wides that lessens Haley's involvement.  And he doesn't like it.  

The guy is a former college golfer and an interim women's college golf coach.  That's fine, go coach golf.  Nothing wrong with that if that's your expertise.  

But as an OC in the NFL with HIS system?  He's completely in over his head.  And the rest of the NFL agrees.

Tomlin wanted Kirby Wilson.  

The offensive leaders (Said to be Ben, Miller, and Pouncey at the time) at a sit-down with Tomlin/Art II lobbied for Randy Fichtner after the horrific fire at Wilson's home (He was burned so badly rumors are the bottoms of his feet were down to the bone.) ended his chance.    

Art II chose Haley.  

Of the three options above, Art II is the last one I'd listen to.  

The old saying goes, players play, coaches coach, and owners OWN. Stay in the owners box and reap the rewards that your hired football people provide you.    

Art II forgot that, and the team has taken a giant step back in the last five years compared to the previous five years as a result.  

But Tomlin will be the one who pays the price for it.
I meant it when I said "Word". As in one Thumbsup
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Crash
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#52
06-01-2017, 04:27 AM

Me?  One word?  Never.  Laugh

I'm actually complimenting Haley when I say nothing can stop his 3 wide set.  The Washington opener was another great outing, kept the slow swill on the bench, the offense rolled up 31 points, and THEN his pets went into the game in garbage time. And remember, that was also without Bell and Bryant.  

He knows what he SHOULD do, but he'd rather do what he WANTS to do most weeks instead.  He'd be a hometown hero for life if he just let the talent win for him and stop the needless crap.   They CAN be a 30 point per game offense, but Haley has to change his basic philosophy, and his basic preferred formation and stop handcuffing his own offense.  

If anything, the addition of JJSS, and the returning Bryant (who appears to be in phenomenal condition) will finally put Haley on blast if he removes one or both (Or Eli as the #3 WR) in the red zone for his usual tricks and bizarre formations and it fails.  Bell has never been a consistent goal line back either, James Conner excelled in this role at PITT.  I said earlier this is a big season for Tomlin.  It's also a big season for Haley because if anything, those additions will finally make people start paying attention to who is, and who ISN'T on the field if the RZ offense sputters.   

Everyone harps about Jesse James at TE.  James is fine, when they have three wides and speed on the field because that clears the middle of the field for him.  James gets in trouble when he's in 2-3 TE set.  That Baltimore 4th quarter he was fantastic, the best quarter of his career.  

And he was the only TE on the field for 29 of 30 snaps.  

If Haley has any aspirations of becoming a head coach again (Which he said last season he does)?  IMO this season, will decide that fate for him one way or the other.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2017, 04:58 AM by Crash.)
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mcmillenandwife
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#53
06-01-2017, 06:16 AM

(06-01-2017, 04:27 AM)Crash Wrote: ...if he removes one or both (Or Eli as the #3 WR) in the red zone for his usual tricks and bizarre formations and it fails...

THIS is my beef with Haley. I have no problem what he does between the twenties. It's the red zone nonsense, and specifically, inside the ten. It's like he turns into Henry Winkler in "The Waterboy."  Laugh
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dbsfgyd1
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#54
06-01-2017, 07:04 AM

#52
2 hours ago

Me?  One word?  Never.  [Image: laugh.gif]
(06-01-2017, 04:27 AM)Crash Wrote: Me?  One word?  Never.  Laugh

I'm actually complimenting Haley when I say nothing can stop his 3 wide set.  The Washington opener was another great outing, kept the slow swill on the bench, the offense rolled up 31 points, and THEN his pets went into the game in garbage time. And remember, that was also without Bell and Bryant.  

He knows what he SHOULD do, but he'd rather do what he WANTS to do most weeks instead.  He'd be a hometown hero for life if he just let the talent win for him and stop the needless crap.   They CAN be a 30 point per game offense, but Haley has to change his basic philosophy, and his basic preferred formation and stop handcuffing his own offense.  

If anything, the addition of JJSS, and the returning Bryant (who appears to be in phenomenal condition) will finally put Haley on blast if he removes one or both (Or Eli as the #3 WR) in the red zone for his usual tricks and bizarre formations and it fails.  Bell has never been a consistent goal line back either, James Conner excelled in this role at PITT.  I said earlier this is a big season for Tomlin.  It's also a big season for Haley because if anything, those additions will finally make people start paying attention to who is, and who ISN'T on the field if the RZ offense sputters.   

Everyone harps about Jesse James at TE.  James is fine, when they have three wides and speed on the field because that clears the middle of the field for him.  James gets in trouble when he's in 2-3 TE set.  That Baltimore 4th quarter he was fantastic, the best quarter of his career.  

And he was the only TE on the field for 29 of 30 snaps.  

If Haley has any aspirations of becoming a head coach again (Which he said last season he does)?  IMO this season, will decide that fate for him one way or the other.

#52
2 hours ago
Me?  One word?  Never.  [Image: laugh.gif]

Me either!! LOL!!
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dbsfgyd1
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#55
06-01-2017, 07:07 AM

(06-01-2017, 06:16 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(06-01-2017, 04:27 AM)Crash Wrote: ...if he removes one or both (Or Eli as the #3 WR) in the red zone for his usual tricks and bizarre formations and it fails...

THIS is my beef with Haley. I have no problem what he does between the twenties. It's the red zone nonsense, and specifically, inside the ten. It's like he turns into Henry Winkler in "The Waterboy."  Laugh
Being honest, I have entertained thoughts of taking criminal action watching some of his redzone BS....
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Crash
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#56
06-01-2017, 08:32 AM

You should hear this guy who sits in section 133 at Heinz Field. He heckled Haley for three hours during the Bills game in 2013.

I'll have to go dig my tweets up (I posted them after that game), the guy got a standing ovation when he left his seat when the game was over.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#57
06-02-2017, 12:33 AM

I'm no Haley fan either, but as Tim states he gets the job done between the 20's but turns into Joe Walton in the red-zone. BWhahahahaha.

He was brought in to reduce the wear and tear and amount of punishment Ben was taking.
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Crash
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#58
06-02-2017, 04:15 AM

And he's failed.

And they don't win enough.

Treat Ben's final three seasons like the Broncos did with Elway, who also ended his tenure as a SB Champion.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#59
06-02-2017, 08:25 AM

(06-02-2017, 04:15 AM)Crash Wrote: Treat Ben's final three seasons like the Broncos did with Elway, who also ended his tenure as a SB Champion.

3??? He's only verbally committed to 1.
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Crash
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#60
06-02-2017, 08:38 AM

(06-02-2017, 08:25 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(06-02-2017, 04:15 AM)Crash Wrote: Treat Ben's final three seasons like the Broncos did with Elway, who also ended his tenure as a SB Champion.

3??? He's only verbally committed to 1.


If Haley were to get fired?  He stays at least until after 2018 because his stated goal when he was drafted was 15 years.
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