Interesting take on the 2017 draft
Chucktownsteeler
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#1
05-22-2017, 11:44 PM

Very good article, some good taking points and perhaps a glimpse into future drafts. Are Tomlin and Colbert trying to "Out-Belicheck-Belicheck"? Are they on to something? One thing about Belicheck's players, they aren't always the best at their position, but they have that "refuse-to-lose" mentality. Also, I thought the comment on Ben near the end was thought provoking:

Steelers Spin: The Secret Motive Behind The Steelers 2017 NFL Draft 


What was really behind the Pittsburgh Steelers somewhat bewildering strategy in the 2017 NFL Draft?

Adding depth to critical positions? Filling roster holes? Plotting for the future? Creating offseason competition?

Yes…but at the root, there was something even more radical. More profound. And it wasn’t even mentioned by NFL Draft gurus Mel Kiper Jr. and Mike Mayock.

You see…for all NFL teams, each draft has a general theme and the choices made are as much a statement about the team’s past roster as it is about the future one.

Some might be focused on increasing team speed. The statement they are making is their current squad is slow.




Others might be focused on drafting players who have won at the college level. They are basically saying that..well..their locker room is filled with losers.

Then, of course, there is the Cleveland Browns, where the annual theme is, “Let’s just hit the reset button.”

So what was this year’s draft theme for the Steelers, and what does it reveal about the team’s opinion of the current roster?

The Pittsburgh front office is as tight-lipped as it comes in regards to ripping on their own players. The draft is as close as you’ll get at determining what they truly think about their roster.

So let’s read the tea leaves.

It starts with a first round draft pick in linebacker T.J. Watt, who only had one full year as a starter at college in his resume. Remember when General Manager Kevin Colbert went on and on about how much the franchise values production at the college level above everything else?

Do you recall that Jarvis Jones selection?

Production at the university level? Watt entered college listed as a tight end. Does his production add up to first round pedigree by Colbert’s own standards? Hmmm.

And what about drafting a second round receiver in JuJu Smith-Schuster, who had difficulty getting separation from cornerbacks even at the college level? Welcome to the NFL, young man. Now try to get open against guys who are just as big and strong and who run a 4.3.

And then there is Cameron Sutton, a cornerback who couldn’t break 4.5 at the combine. How can he be counted on to keep up with the elite speed of the big leagues?

Of course, there is everyone’s favorite in James Conner, the inspirational running back from Pittsburgh. The story is phenomenal, but when judging on pure talent who could argue against it being a significant reach at round three?

But…there’s the rub. The Steelers didn’t enter this NFL draft looking for pure talent. They weren’t seeking out players based on their college productivity.

Instead, they were attempting to fill a significant team need. One that was painfully exposed in the AFC Championship against the New England Patriots.

That is, the will to win. An unimpeded focus on the being the best in the world. A total expression of passion and true love of the game.

Let’s be honest. If Ben Roethlisberger and Tom Brady were on the playground picking their team, don’t you think Big Ben would want to choose just about everyone on his offense over those of the Patriots?

And defensively. Was there really that large of a separation of talent between the two squads?

But the Steelers got embarrassed. Humiliated.

Sure you can say they got outcoached. That happens with pretty much every team competing against Bill Belichick. And you wouldn’t be wrong if you said they got out played on that any given Sunday.

Still, what was disturbing and undeniable, was the Patriots were clearly on a mission…and the Steelers, in comparison, were merely along for the ride.

Is that harsh to say the team didn’t have a “will to win”? It is if you’re looking merely at the 60 minutes during which the game is played.

But the will to win begins the day after the Super Bowl winner is decided. It carries through each and every day during the offseason. Do the players and coaches see the six months of the offseason as time off or time to take it to the next level?

It’s the work that is put in when no one is looking. And it’s even the work that is put in when everyone is looking…like when James Harrison documents his unrelenting work ethic on Instagram.

Were the Steelers lacking focus and dedication in 2016? Let’s see.

Does your All Pro wide receiver stream Facebook Live in the locker room the week before the Championship Game? Check.
Does your uber-talented wide receiver have to watch games at home due to his year-long suspension? Check.
Does your unbelievably gifted running back have to miss games at the beginning of the season because of his inability to comply with drug testing protocol? Check.
Does your year start off with a miserable team-wide pre-season performance? Check.
And the most challenging of all? How about your $100 million dollar quarterback spending more time talking about retirement than what he’s going to do in order to win another Lombardi Trophy for the NFL’s most storied franchise and greatest fanbase?

Yes…going into this NFL Draft, the Steelers front office clearly identified the team’s Achilles Heel. This is a team with extraordinary talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball. But they clearly are lacking the “it” factor.

It’s a squad with unlimited potential, but without the commitment it requires to be champions.

That is why, this year’s Steelers draft makes so much sense. In fact, it’s why it’s absolutely brilliant.

T.J. Watt? An unrelenting motor, a family pedigree of football pride, and a desire to be the best in his clan.

Schuster? No, he won’t be the team’s fastest player. But this is an offense that desperately needs a player who is more Hines Ward than Usain Bolt in the huddle, and he’ll fit the bill.

Conner? Probably the wisest choice of all. This is the closest the team has come to drafting Rocky Bleier than…well since Rocky Bleier. This guy will spend less time posting selfies, and more time bringing the Pittsburgh back to the Steelers.

And for those of you who have questioned the Joshua Dobbs selection, take heart. Roethlisberger doesn’t need a harmless, super-nice guy like Landry Jones backing him up. He needs a rocket scientist with limitless ambition to remind him of what an honor and privilege it is to be an NFL quarterback in this league.

“Are you done with that football, sir?”

Before you jump to the conclusion I am some sort of Big Ben hater, it should be said the jersey I wear for game day has the number seven on it. Heck, our family cat is named Ben, and is exactly as old as Roethlisberger’s NFL career.

And sadly, just like our kitty, there is a limited life expectancy on Big Ben’s opportunity to express himself in the NFL.

He’ll have plenty of time to open Roethlisberger Burger franchises in the future, but his time for football immortality is now, with the clock ticking down every precious remaining moment.

As the team’s on-field Chief Executive Officer, it is unfathomable Roethlisberger would make so public his mindset of having one foot on the football field, and the other on a golf course.

How is that being the leader of the team? How is that motivating your teammates to be all-in on the 2017 season?

I love Big Ben. He’s a great all-time Steeler, and I believe he has several more years to lead this team to glory.

But if he mentions the word “retirement” ever again, it ought to be in the office of Art Rooney II with a refund check in his hand for whatever is left on his contract.

If the Steelers are going to bring home any more hardware for Steelers Nation, it’s going to have to be with a much greater commitment than they have demonstrated the last few years. And that includes the entire organization.

Did I like this year’s draft? Absolutely. This team was talented enough long before NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell heard the first raining of boos in Philadelphia.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/05/steelers-spin-secret-motive-behind-steelers-2017-nfl-draft/

An infusion of heart is exactly what the team needed. Which is why this year’s draft is championship grade.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2017, 11:49 PM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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Crash
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#2
05-23-2017, 05:00 AM

Quote:And the most challenging of all? How about your $100 million dollar quarterback spending more time talking about retirement than what he’s going to do in order to win another Lombardi Trophy for the NFL’s most storied franchise and greatest fanbase?

He talked about retirement ONE DAY.

You want Lombardi #7? Get rid of Todd Haley.


It's that simple.
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mcmillenandwife
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#3
05-23-2017, 07:50 AM

(05-22-2017, 11:44 PM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: And the most challenging of all? How about your $100 million dollar quarterback spending more time talking about retirement than what he’s going to do in order to win another Lombardi Trophy for the NFL’s most storied franchise and greatest fanbase?

“Are you done with that football, sir?”

Before you jump to the conclusion I am some sort of Big Ben hater, it should be said the jersey I wear for game day has the number seven on it. Heck, our family cat is named Ben, and is exactly as old as Roethlisberger’s NFL career.

And sadly, just like our kitty, there is a limited life expectancy on Big Ben’s opportunity to express himself in the NFL.

He’ll have plenty of time to open Roethlisberger Burger franchises in the future, but his time for football immortality is now, with the clock ticking down every precious remaining moment.

As the team’s on-field Chief Executive Officer, it is unfathomable Roethlisberger would make so public his mindset of having one foot on the football field, and the other on a golf course.

How is that being the leader of the team? How is that motivating your teammates to be all-in on the 2017 season?

I love Big Ben. He’s a great all-time Steeler, and I believe he has several more years to lead this team to glory.

But if he mentions the word “retirement” ever again, it ought to be in the office of Art Rooney II with a refund check in his hand for whatever is left on his contract.

Who wrote this? Seems like fan site hand-wringing to me.

I call foul on the author's entire thought process regarding Roethlisberger. First, Ben didn't dwell on his retirement. This wasn't a Brett Favre moment. Second, acknowledging that the bell is tolling somewhere in the not to distant future doesn't show a lack of heart. If anything, Ben is creating urgency with his comments. 

Was Bettis a bad teammate and poor leader when he talked retirement? Hell no! The whole team rallied around him and frankly, I believe that was what gave them the extra edge to get to Detroit. "Take me home." Emotion and momentum and luck all play such incredibly large roles in football. Teams rally around HOF players they know hear the clock ticking. Elway. Bettis. Ray Lewis.

Big Ben.

Look, I respect your opinion, Chucktown. I'm not trying to jump your $#!t for expressing yourself. I just can't understand how folks who I'm certain are true, die-hard fans can have what, to me, seem like such negative attitudes about the Steelers. This is such a great franchise! They are so consistently good and often great. The best franchise in football for 40+ years. 

Learn to enjoy the ride, guys.  Smokin
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Chucktownsteeler
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#4
05-23-2017, 08:51 AM

(05-23-2017, 07:50 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:44 PM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: And the most challenging of all? How about your $100 million dollar quarterback spending more time talking about retirement than what he’s going to do in order to win another Lombardi Trophy for the NFL’s most storied franchise and greatest fanbase?

“Are you done with that football, sir?”

Before you jump to the conclusion I am some sort of Big Ben hater, it should be said the jersey I wear for game day has the number seven on it. Heck, our family cat is named Ben, and is exactly as old as Roethlisberger’s NFL career.

And sadly, just like our kitty, there is a limited life expectancy on Big Ben’s opportunity to express himself in the NFL.

He’ll have plenty of time to open Roethlisberger Burger franchises in the future, but his time for football immortality is now, with the clock ticking down every precious remaining moment.

As the team’s on-field Chief Executive Officer, it is unfathomable Roethlisberger would make so public his mindset of having one foot on the football field, and the other on a golf course.

How is that being the leader of the team? How is that motivating your teammates to be all-in on the 2017 season?

I love Big Ben. He’s a great all-time Steeler, and I believe he has several more years to lead this team to glory.

But if he mentions the word “retirement” ever again, it ought to be in the office of Art Rooney II with a refund check in his hand for whatever is left on his contract.

Who wrote this? Seems like fan site hand-wringing to me.

I call foul on the author's entire thought process regarding Roethlisberger. First, Ben didn't dwell on his retirement. This wasn't a Brett Favre moment. Second, acknowledging that the bell is tolling somewhere in the not to distant future doesn't show a lack of heart. If anything, Ben is creating urgency with his comments. 

Was Bettis a bad teammate and poor leader when he talked retirement? Hell no! The whole team rallied around him and frankly, I believe that was what gave them the extra edge to get to Detroit. "Take me home." Emotion and momentum and luck all play such incredibly large roles in football. Teams rally around HOF players they know hear the clock ticking. Elway. Bettis. Ray Lewis.

Big Ben.

Look, I respect your opinion, Chucktown. I'm not trying to jump your $#!t for expressing yourself. I just can't understand how folks who I'm certain are true, die-hard fans can have what, to me, seem like such negative attitudes about the Steelers. This is such a great franchise! They are so consistently good and often great. The best franchise in football for 40+ years. 

Learn to enjoy the ride, guys.  Smokin

First of all i didn't author this. Secondly i think the entire gist of the article got lost. I have been head-scratching on this draft for quite a while and I think the author nailed this. My interpretation was Colbert & Co, drafted players with a "refuse-to-lose" attitude, just like the majority of the Patriot players have. If you can find a current NFL player with more heart then Edleman please point him out. Note the key word being "current". Case in point the author mentioned J. Jones, drafted #1 round with a pedigree as long as a Duggar grocery list. However he didn't pan out. That list could go on and on. But the article is mentioning him as a bust, the gist of the article is this draft centered around players with shorter pedigrees, maybe a hair slower but with relentless motors and are driven to succeed. 

The mention of Ben I believe he is the leader and your "Yes" should mean "Yes" and your "No" should mean "No". He is the field general. Bettis and the murdering Ray Lewis were not quarterbacks. What did Emperor Chas Noll say - "If you are thinking about retirement you already have."

I believe the entire meaning of this article has been missed.
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2017, 08:52 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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mcmillenandwife
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#5
05-23-2017, 10:03 AM

(05-23-2017, 08:51 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: First of all i didn't author this. 


Yes, I think we all caught that. You posted it because you thought it was an interesting read, which it was.


(05-23-2017, 08:51 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Secondly i think the entire gist of the article got lost. I have been head-scratching on this draft for quite a while and I think the author nailed this. My interpretation was Colbert & Co, drafted players with a "refuse-to-lose" attitude, just like the majority of the Patriot players have. ***SNIP*** But the gist of the article is this draft centered around players with shorter pedigrees, maybe a hair slower but with relentless motors and are driven to succeed. 


I didn't totally miss it, but I did kinda gloss over it because I knee-jerked on the negativity (from my point of view) interspersed throughout. But as a draft strategy theory (targeting players with heart), it's not bad.



(05-23-2017, 08:51 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: If you can find a current NFL player with more heart then Edleman please point him out. 


James Harrison.  Thumbsup  More heart, better motor (even now that he's in his mid-50's)  Pi_bigsmile  plus he could literally eat Edleman for breakfast.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#6
05-23-2017, 10:43 AM

(05-23-2017, 10:03 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(05-23-2017, 08:51 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: First of all i didn't author this. 


Yes, I think we all caught that. You posted it because you thought it was an interesting read, which it was.


(05-23-2017, 08:51 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Secondly i think the entire gist of the article got lost. I have been head-scratching on this draft for quite a while and I think the author nailed this. My interpretation was Colbert & Co, drafted players with a "refuse-to-lose" attitude, just like the majority of the Patriot players have. ***SNIP*** But the gist of the article is this draft centered around players with shorter pedigrees, maybe a hair slower but with relentless motors and are driven to succeed. 


I didn't totally miss it, but I did kinda gloss over it because I knee-jerked on the negativity (from my point of view) interspersed throughout. But as a draft strategy theory (targeting players with heart), it's not bad.



(05-23-2017, 08:51 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: If you can find a current NFL player with more heart then Edleman please point him out. 


James Harrison.  Thumbsup  More heart, better motor (even now that he's in his mid-50's)  Pi_bigsmile  plus he could literally eat Edleman for breakfast.

Good one on Harrison. I'll take both of them on my team any day. But of course they both played for my Alma Matter, Kent State University, as did Jack Lambert and Antonio Gates. I need to bottle whatever is in that water in Kent, Ohio. 

In all seriousness perhaps Colbert & Co. are on the cusp of a new draft strategy.
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2017, 10:43 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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SteelThePain82
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#7
05-23-2017, 12:11 PM

Quote:I just can't understand how folks who I'm certain are true, die-hard fans can have what, to me, seem like such negative attitudes about the Steelers.

I thought the tone of the article had a strong upbeat tone. *shrugs*

I like to think of it more like assessing the team's strengths and weaknesses and speculating how best to maximize the potential for success.  Pi_bigsmile

Quote:This is such a great franchise! They are so consistently good and often great. The best franchise in football for 40+ years. 

Learn to enjoy the ride, guys.  [Image: smokin.gif]

It's the offseason.  It's not that we aren't enjoying the ride.  But we're also restless Scared  and need stuff to talk about to pass the time between now and July Nerd  Laugh
But I do agree with you on the best franchise in 40+ years statement.


BTW cool article C-Town! thanks for posting!  Thumbsup
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Crash
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#8
05-23-2017, 12:37 PM

Quote:What did Emperor Chas Noll say - "If you are thinking about retirement you already have."

Terry Bradshaw who talked retirement after 1979 and 1981, James Harrison who did retire and come back, and Chuck Noll himself who almost retired after 1988 when Dan Rooney ORDERED HIM to demote Tony Dungy (who then quit) beg to differ.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#9
05-23-2017, 11:55 PM

(05-23-2017, 12:37 PM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:What did Emperor Chas Noll say - "If you are thinking about retirement you already have."

Terry Bradshaw who talked retirement after 1979 and 1981, James Harrison who did retire and come back, and Chuck Noll himself who almost retired after 1988 when Dan Rooney ORDERED HIM to demote Tony Dungy (who then quit) beg to differ.

I think the point of the article is being missed. A few days ago the topic in here was "why can't we beat Belicheater", Belicheter and the Pat***" yada, yada, yada....

To me when I read this article it struck me as perhaps, just perhaps Colbert & Co. may be starting to take a page from the Pats*** book. The Pats*** (although I despise them as much as any team) have the "team first mentality" down to a science. Say what you will the Pats*** do have this mentality. Do I believe they cheat or have cheated: absolutely. I even stated if there is another scandal Kraft and Belicheater should be banned lifetime. 

To me the article spoke of drafting players with relentless motors, team first attitudes, great hearts, and an unequivocal drive to succeed. It struck me as perhaps the "it" factor we have been lacking. Time will tell, but I thought it to be a positive article. 

Now to the retirement talk, the author clearly states he is a Ben fan, who knows for sure, all we can do is take hime for his word. However, to digress, when the Bus and the murdering Ray Lewis talked retirement they meant it. There is also a huge difference when an OLB that is on roughly 50% of the defensive snaps speaks of retirement (and the the team has drafted his heir apparent in Jarvis Jones) and the undeniable leader of the offense says it (and probably doesn't mean it). As Ben goes so goes our offense and to a point our defense. I know he said it out of frustration, but he still said. That is what I think the author is trying to convey. I didn't interpret this as a "Bash Ben" thread.
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Crash
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#10
05-24-2017, 02:16 AM

I mentioned Bradshaw.  I also mentioned Noll who you quoted to make your point.  Why didn't Noll go after 1988 then?  

It used to be "As Ben goes so does our offense" from 2004-2011.  

Now it's "Please Coach Haley don't fuck this up with your tricks and just stay out of the way"

Which he doesn't do nearly enough.  The barometer for success has been lowered for Todd Haley much the same way it was lowered for Kordell Stewart in 2001.  

And in the end Kordell fizzled out.  Haley has done the same actually, but because he's Dick Haley's son he gets a free pass from Art II.  

If they want to send Ben out as a champion it's simple, dump Haley, promote Fichtner, hire Charlie Batch as the QB coach, and give Ben the goddamn respect he deserves.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2017, 02:56 AM by Crash.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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#11
05-24-2017, 03:44 AM

(05-24-2017, 02:16 AM)Crash Wrote: I mentioned Bradshaw.  I also mentioned Noll who you quoted to make your point.  Why didn't Noll go after 1988 then?  

It used to be "As Ben goes so does our offense" from 2004-2011.  

Now it's "Please Coach Haley don't fuck this up with your tricks and just stay out of the way"

Which he doesn't do nearly enough.  The barometer for success has been lowered for Todd Haley much the same way it was lowered for Kordell Stewart in 2001.  

And in the end Kordell fizzled out.  Haley has done the same actually, but because he's Dick Haley's son he gets a free pass from Art II.  

If they want to send Ben out as a champion it's simple, dump Haley, promote Fichtner, hire Charlie Batch as the QB coach, and give Ben the goddamn respect he deserves.

It's no secret I'm not a big Haley fan, I once dubbed his offense "Haley's Vomit". In fact, I think he's a nut job, with all the conspiracies  and lawsuits he's been involved with. 

Like him or not he was brought in to keep Ben upright and healthy. That was the knock against BA (and still is), that his QBs take a pounding. What was ben, sacked like 16 times all last season? Some of that is credited to drafting a solid OL, Munchak, but some credit also has to go to Haley for the offense game planning. Ben still holds the ball too long on occasion. Haley is doing what his bosses hired him for, you have misguided anger.
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Crash
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05-24-2017, 04:23 AM

Quote:It's no secret I'm not a big Haley fan, I once dubbed his offense "Haley's Vomit". In fact, I think he's a nut job, with all the conspiracies  and lawsuits he's been involved with. 

Like him or not he was brought in to keep Ben upright and healthy. That was the knock against BA (and still is), that his QBs take a pounding. What was ben, sacked like 16 times all last season? Some of that is credited to drafting a solid OL, Munchak, but some credit also has to go to Haley for the offense game planning. Ben still holds the ball too long on occasion. Haley is doing what his bosses hired him for, you have misguided anger.

1. Ben has missed more games due to injury with Haley than he did with Arians.  

2. Haley's QB's take beatings too.  In fact, every QB that Haley's had in Pittsburgh that's started a game, with the exception of Charlie Batch in 2012, has left games injured on Haley's watch.  

3. I don't care about sack totals (Best example was that RZ play-calling sequence in New England at the end of the first half).  Ben is still taking big shots in this offense.  Haley's problems have MORE to do with what he wants his base offense to be: Two tight ends, fullbacks, dink and dunk. 

But that's not what's best for this offense, or Ben.  Haley constantly changes the parts around Ben.  AB, and whomever is the starting RB at the time, are the ONLY constants in the huddle.  That's why Ben sometimes forces passes to Brown, because he's the only one who's always on the field for the most part.  If DHB has 20 snaps in a game?  That's a problem.  Ben has no confidence in him for the most part.    

On the rare occasions that Haley has stayed out of the way, stopped the constant subbing during the game and just keeps the same parts on the field and allows the offense to get in sync?  The offense usually dominates.

But then the next week it's back to the same song and dance.   

The Steelers led the NFL in points in the last two minutes and you know why?  Because the subbing stops because they have no time to and Ben is usually calling the plays.   

But that also lessens Haley's involvement, and he can't have that.  

IMO Ben's thinking retirement because he's had it with Haley.  Inside Pittsburgh Sports reported last season that Haley's constantly late for player meetings during the week and has also gained the reputation among the players for not going the "extra mile" in regards to game preparation.  

Haley's also too preoccupied with getting credit, and taking credit from Ben.  Best example?  2015 Chargers game, BOTH Vick and Wheaton said RIGHT AFTER the game, that it was Ben who came up with the play where Vick threw the TD to Wheaton.  

But Haley the next week told FOX Sports prior to the Cardinals game in production meetings with Aikman and Thom Brenneman, that it was DHB who did it, and he also told Ben to "tone it down" as far as being involved on the sidelines.  

What's the point in doing all of that?  Is Haley that much of an insecure dimwit?  Apparently so. 

If Art II fired Haley and promoted Fichtner?  Not only would Ben play at least two more seasons, perhaps three, but the Steelers would win the AFC at least once more before Ben calls it a career.  

Guaranteed.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2017, 04:30 AM by Crash.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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#13
05-24-2017, 04:59 AM

(05-24-2017, 04:23 AM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:It's no secret I'm not a big Haley fan, I once dubbed his offense "Haley's Vomit". In fact, I think he's a nut job, with all the conspiracies  and lawsuits he's been involved with. 

Like him or not he was brought in to keep Ben upright and healthy. That was the knock against BA (and still is), that his QBs take a pounding. What was ben, sacked like 16 times all last season? Some of that is credited to drafting a solid OL, Munchak, but some credit also has to go to Haley for the offense game planning. Ben still holds the ball too long on occasion. Haley is doing what his bosses hired him for, you have misguided anger.

1. Ben has missed more games due to injury with Haley than he did with Arians.  

2. Haley's QB's take beatings too.  In fact, every QB that Haley's had in Pittsburgh that's started a game, with the exception of Charlie Batch in 2012, has left games injured on Haley's watch.  

3. I don't care about sack totals (Best example was that RZ play-calling sequence in New England at the end of the first half).  Ben is still taking big shots in this offense.  Haley's problems have MORE to do with what he wants his base offense to be: Two tight ends, fullbacks, dink and dunk. 

But that's not what's best for this offense, or Ben.  Haley constantly changes the parts around Ben.  AB, and whomever is the starting RB at the time, are the ONLY constants in the huddle.  That's why Ben sometimes forces passes to Brown, because he's the only one who's always on the field for the most part.  If DHB has 20 snaps in a game?  That's a problem.  Ben has no confidence in him for the most part.    

On the rare occasions that Haley has stayed out of the way, stopped the constant subbing during the game and just keeps the same parts on the field and allows the offense to get in sync?  The offense usually dominates.

But then the next week it's back to the same song and dance.   

The Steelers led the NFL in points in the last two minutes and you know why?  Because the subbing stops because they have no time to and Ben is usually calling the plays.   

But that also lessens Haley's involvement, and he can't have that.  

IMO Ben's thinking retirement because he's had it with Haley.  Inside Pittsburgh Sports reported last season that Haley's constantly late for player meetings during the week and has also gained the reputation among the players for not going the "extra mile" in regards to game preparation.  

Haley's also too preoccupied with getting credit, and taking credit from Ben.  Best example?  2015 Chargers game, BOTH Vick and Wheaton said RIGHT AFTER the game, that it was Ben who came up with the play where Vick threw the TD to Wheaton.  

But Haley the next week told FOX Sports prior to the Cardinals game in production meetings with Aikman and Thom Brenneman, that it was DHB who did it, and he also told Ben to "tone it down" as far as being involved on the sidelines.  

What's the point in doing all of that?  Is Haley that much of an insecure dimwit?  Apparently so. 

If Art II fired Haley and promoted Fichtner?  Not only would Ben play at least two more seasons, perhaps three, but the Steelers would win the AFC at least once more before Ben calls it a career.  

Guaranteed.

I just realized something, are you the Crash that has been banned at Planet Steelers and just about everywhere else?
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Crash
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#14
05-24-2017, 05:24 AM

(05-24-2017, 04:59 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(05-24-2017, 04:23 AM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:It's no secret I'm not a big Haley fan, I once dubbed his offense "Haley's Vomit". In fact, I think he's a nut job, with all the conspiracies  and lawsuits he's been involved with. 

Like him or not he was brought in to keep Ben upright and healthy. That was the knock against BA (and still is), that his QBs take a pounding. What was ben, sacked like 16 times all last season? Some of that is credited to drafting a solid OL, Munchak, but some credit also has to go to Haley for the offense game planning. Ben still holds the ball too long on occasion. Haley is doing what his bosses hired him for, you have misguided anger.

1. Ben has missed more games due to injury with Haley than he did with Arians.  

2. Haley's QB's take beatings too.  In fact, every QB that Haley's had in Pittsburgh that's started a game, with the exception of Charlie Batch in 2012, has left games injured on Haley's watch.  

3. I don't care about sack totals (Best example was that RZ play-calling sequence in New England at the end of the first half).  Ben is still taking big shots in this offense.  Haley's problems have MORE to do with what he wants his base offense to be: Two tight ends, fullbacks, dink and dunk. 

But that's not what's best for this offense, or Ben.  Haley constantly changes the parts around Ben.  AB, and whomever is the starting RB at the time, are the ONLY constants in the huddle.  That's why Ben sometimes forces passes to Brown, because he's the only one who's always on the field for the most part.  If DHB has 20 snaps in a game?  That's a problem.  Ben has no confidence in him for the most part.    

On the rare occasions that Haley has stayed out of the way, stopped the constant subbing during the game and just keeps the same parts on the field and allows the offense to get in sync?  The offense usually dominates.

But then the next week it's back to the same song and dance.   

The Steelers led the NFL in points in the last two minutes and you know why?  Because the subbing stops because they have no time to and Ben is usually calling the plays.   

But that also lessens Haley's involvement, and he can't have that.  

IMO Ben's thinking retirement because he's had it with Haley.  Inside Pittsburgh Sports reported last season that Haley's constantly late for player meetings during the week and has also gained the reputation among the players for not going the "extra mile" in regards to game preparation.  

Haley's also too preoccupied with getting credit, and taking credit from Ben.  Best example?  2015 Chargers game, BOTH Vick and Wheaton said RIGHT AFTER the game, that it was Ben who came up with the play where Vick threw the TD to Wheaton.  

But Haley the next week told FOX Sports prior to the Cardinals game in production meetings with Aikman and Thom Brenneman, that it was DHB who did it, and he also told Ben to "tone it down" as far as being involved on the sidelines.  

What's the point in doing all of that?  Is Haley that much of an insecure dimwit?  Apparently so. 

If Art II fired Haley and promoted Fichtner?  Not only would Ben play at least two more seasons, perhaps three, but the Steelers would win the AFC at least once more before Ben calls it a career.  

Guaranteed.

I just realized something, are you the Crash that has been banned at Planet Steelers and just about everywhere else?


Yep that's me.  I was banned at Planet Steelers because the owner of that site told me I was "arguing just to argue" when I said in June 2012 that Pouncey would be more suited to play guard rather than center.  He banned me.  

Then the Steelers went to Baltimore, with their 3rd string QB, with Pouncey playing GUARD, and won the game.  

So I got banned for being five months AHEAD of the Steelers coaching staff.  

I also said before Haley coached a game, that Dick LeBeau would be the one getting the heat for his 4th quarter defense stinking it up, now that his last scapegoat Bruce Arians was shown the door.

Lo and behold, the defense blew 13 fourth quarter leads in their first 38 games with Haley on the payroll, and imagine that, LeBeau got heat for it and then got fired.  

The problem NOW, is that when the offense has  a good game, Todd Haley's a genius.  

But when he mixes and matches, has 330 pound linemen running pass patterns and James Harrison playing fullback in the red zone and his offense STINKS, it's Roethlisberger who gets blamed for it.

As expected.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#15
05-24-2017, 07:47 AM

I thought I recognized your name. it just took me a while.
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dbsfgyd1
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#16
05-24-2017, 10:42 AM

(05-24-2017, 04:23 AM)Crash Wrote:
Quote:It's no secret I'm not a big Haley fan, I once dubbed his offense "Haley's Vomit". In fact, I think he's a nut job, with all the conspiracies  and lawsuits he's been involved with. 

Like him or not he was brought in to keep Ben upright and healthy. That was the knock against BA (and still is), that his QBs take a pounding. What was ben, sacked like 16 times all last season? Some of that is credited to drafting a solid OL, Munchak, but some credit also has to go to Haley for the offense game planning. Ben still holds the ball too long on occasion. Haley is doing what his bosses hired him for, you have misguided anger.

1. Ben has missed more games due to injury with Haley than he did with Arians.  

2. Haley's QB's take beatings too.  In fact, every QB that Haley's had in Pittsburgh that's started a game, with the exception of Charlie Batch in 2012, has left games injured on Haley's watch.  

3. I don't care about sack totals (Best example was that RZ play-calling sequence in New England at the end of the first half).  Ben is still taking big shots in this offense.  Haley's problems have MORE to do with what he wants his base offense to be: Two tight ends, fullbacks, dink and dunk. 


But that's not what's best for this offense, or Ben.  Haley constantly changes the parts around Ben.  AB, and whomever is the starting RB at the time, are the ONLY constants in the huddle.  That's why Ben sometimes forces passes to Brown, because he's the only one who's always on the field for the most part.  If DHB has 20 snaps in a game?  That's a problem.  Ben has no confidence in him for the most part.    

On the rare occasions that Haley has stayed out of the way, stopped the constant subbing during the game and just keeps the same parts on the field and allows the offense to get in sync?  The offense usually dominates.

But then the next week it's back to the same song and dance.   

The Steelers led the NFL in points in the last two minutes and you know why?  Because the subbing stops because they have no time to and Ben is usually calling the plays.   

But that also lessens Haley's involvement, and he can't have that.  

IMO Ben's thinking retirement because he's had it with Haley.  Inside Pittsburgh Sports reported last season that Haley's constantly late for player meetings during the week and has also gained the reputation among the players for not going the "extra mile" in regards to game preparation.  

Haley's also too preoccupied with getting credit, and taking credit from Ben.  Best example?  2015 Chargers game, BOTH Vick and Wheaton said RIGHT AFTER the game, that it was Ben who came up with the play where Vick threw the TD to Wheaton.  

But Haley the next week told FOX Sports prior to the Cardinals game in production meetings with Aikman and Thom Brenneman, that it was DHB who did it, and he also told Ben to "tone it down" as far as being involved on the sidelines.  

What's the point in doing all of that?  Is Haley that much of an insecure dimwit?  Apparently so. 

If Art II fired Haley and promoted Fichtner?  Not only would Ben play at least two more seasons, perhaps three, but the Steelers would win the AFC at least once more before Ben calls it a career.  

Guaranteed.
1) While it may be true that Ben has missed more games under Haley, and not by much BTW, it is not uncommon that as players age, they tend to get hurt more often. It's a natural progression.

 If you go back a look at the year by year sack totals, there is undisputed evidence that Ben was subject to much more physical abuse under Arians, who does have indisputable track record of getting his QBs killed. One can certainly speculate that this talk of retirement has it's roots in the abuse he took.


 2) I will say if DHB is on the field for 20 snaps, Bell is having a pretty good day rushing the ball. He was the best blocking WR on the team. And you have a problem with that?

3) You should care about sack totals with an aging QB. In fact it is absurd not to. Look what it's doing to Arson Palmer. Look what it did to Luck. It DOES make a difference, or else you wouldn't have raised a stink about Ben getting injured, Right?

Time to let go of the hate my friend. It's not playing here.
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#17
05-24-2017, 11:11 AM

Quote:2) I will say if DHB is on the field for 20 snaps, Bell is having a pretty good day rushing the ball. He was the best blocking WR on the team. And you have a problem with that?

Bell doesn't need DHB to block for him to be successful. Just like everyone wants Nix on the field. Why? He doesn't need Niox either.

Brown, Bryant, and either Eli/JuJU/Coates, one tight end, one running back. And get out of their way.

Keep the the top three wides on the field, one tight end, and sub Conner for Bell every 3rd series carries or not.

They'll win 12 games.

The ONLY person that can stop what I listed above isn't opposing defenses.

It's Todd Haley's ego.
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dbsfgyd1
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#18
05-31-2017, 04:59 AM

(05-23-2017, 07:50 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(05-22-2017, 11:44 PM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: And the most challenging of all? How about your $100 million dollar quarterback spending more time talking about retirement than what he’s going to do in order to win another Lombardi Trophy for the NFL’s most storied franchise and greatest fanbase?

“Are you done with that football, sir?”

Before you jump to the conclusion I am some sort of Big Ben hater, it should be said the jersey I wear for game day has the number seven on it. Heck, our family cat is named Ben, and is exactly as old as Roethlisberger’s NFL career.

And sadly, just like our kitty, there is a limited life expectancy on Big Ben’s opportunity to express himself in the NFL.

He’ll have plenty of time to open Roethlisberger Burger franchises in the future, but his time for football immortality is now, with the clock ticking down every precious remaining moment.

As the team’s on-field Chief Executive Officer, it is unfathomable Roethlisberger would make so public his mindset of having one foot on the football field, and the other on a golf course.

How is that being the leader of the team? How is that motivating your teammates to be all-in on the 2017 season?

I love Big Ben. He’s a great all-time Steeler, and I believe he has several more years to lead this team to glory.

But if he mentions the word “retirement” ever again, it ought to be in the office of Art Rooney II with a refund check in his hand for whatever is left on his contract.

Who wrote this? Seems like fan site hand-wringing to me.

I call foul on the author's entire thought process regarding Roethlisberger. First, Ben didn't dwell on his retirement. This wasn't a Brett Favre moment. Second, acknowledging that the bell is tolling somewhere in the not to distant future doesn't show a lack of heart. If anything, Ben is creating urgency with his comments. 

Was Bettis a bad teammate and poor leader when he talked retirement? Hell no! The whole team rallied around him and frankly, I believe that was what gave them the extra edge to get to Detroit. "Take me home." Emotion and momentum and luck all play such incredibly large roles in football. Teams rally around HOF players they know hear the clock ticking. Elway. Bettis. Ray Lewis.

Big Ben.

Look, I respect your opinion, Chucktown. I'm not trying to jump your $#!t for expressing yourself. I just can't understand how folks who I'm certain are true, die-hard fans can have what, to me, seem like such negative attitudes about the Steelers. This is such a great franchise! They are so consistently good and often great. The best franchise in football for 40+ years. 

Learn to enjoy the ride, guys.  Smokin
"Learn to enjoy the ride, guys.  [Image: smokin.gif]"

Could be a long wait with this crew.

 I'm with you Tim. I don't get it either. It's become "Where seldom is heard.. a encouraging word... And the skies are all cloudy with rain". There is no hope, green eyed envy abounds, and if I only got information here, we haven't had any coaches worth a plugged nickel in 30 years ( with the exception of Bruce Arians and Russ Grimm for reasons I can't begin to fathom), and all of our draft picks suck.

BTW, could you imaging what this site would have been like if this site was online  cir 1992-1996? With that team as loaded as they were? Or worse yet, the 60's?

I really struggle wrapping my arms around this sense of entitlement, that we as fans can demand championships just because we are STEELER FANS!!. Undoubtedly, the winning culture has heightened expectations, and I get that. But somehow, that has crossed the line into entitlement, bringing this uproar over unmet expectations, regardless of how unreasonable they maybe.

It's pretty much guaranteed, if we do win a Super Bowl, less than one week later, the hand wringing will begin,  the coaches will no longer be able to coach, the players will suck, with the exception of the ones that leave in free agency, who like the players on  other teams, will instantly turn in to potential hall of famers, and we will be in cap hell. 

Lol  Cheers!
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Chucktownsteeler
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#19
05-31-2017, 05:29 AM

I watched the Steeler the (6) SB seasons on the NFL channel over the weekend and actually were good. A couple of items I gleamed:

1.) Please forget the Tomlin - Cowher comparisons, neither are a pimple on Chuck Noll's arse.

2.) Yes, I know Noll had bad years, but he was the best of the (3) coaches, the other (2) not even close.

3.) The last draft (2017) leads me to believe the Steelers finally get it. As Banazack said: We weren't always the best at every position, we just had players that hated or refused to lose. I see a lot of those type players in the last draft.
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dbsfgyd1
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#20
05-31-2017, 05:49 AM

Chuck
1 & 2: No joke, but not so much what he did on game day. What really separates them is what he did the rest of the time. You got maybe 4 other coaches in the NFL history that got to that level. Brown, Halas, Lombardi & Belichek. It sure didn't take long to take roll.

3) I hear the words. Let's see it on the field. Talent does have a habit of finding it's own level.

This is just a thought. It's really hard to compare teams and attitudes through the eras. Keep in mind most of those players is the 70's were playing for a nicer house. The players today are playing for multi generational wealth. I keep thinking about Wallace's last year here in Pittsburgh and his soft play. It's certain he is not the only one more concerned about self preservation than victory.
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#21
05-31-2017, 05:56 AM

As Noll put it: If I have to motivate you I'll cut you. Noll was a teacher and believed in preparation. He was a great judge of talent and heart. He doesn't get the near accolades he deserves.
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#22
05-31-2017, 06:27 AM

(05-31-2017, 05:56 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: As Noll put it: If I have to motivate you I'll cut you. Noll was a teacher and believed in preparation. He was a great judge of talent and heart. He doesn't get the near accolades he deserves.
Agreed in full!

That said, there were times in the day, I can give two examples where in I had thoughts like most of you guys have about Tomlin. One was the AFCCG vs the Dolphins 1972. We lose the game on a fake punt. Frankly, we cratered. There was plenty of time to regroup and pull out a victory, but crawled into a shell instead.

The significance of this game in historical perspective is this was the second shot a a championship in over 40 years of Steeler Football. The only other was in 1963, so there was very little confidence on a repeat performance any time soon. Keep in mind, Noll's prior 3 years were not exactly stellar.

The second was during the 1976 playoff run. While we totally destroyed the Colts the week prior, Blier and Harris both had injuries making them inactive for the Championship game vs. the Raiders. Pretty much the game plan was devoid of running plays, and of course we lost the game. The Steelers had the best defense I've ever seen that year, and to see them lose, and lose to the Raiders, was a hard pill to swallow.

The reason I'm bringing the '76 season up is even with one of the best coaches in the history of the NFL, you go into a playoff game minus a significant part of your offense ( think Bell the last 3 years), even with the best defense in history ( I doubt there is anybody that would confuse the 2016 Steeler D for the 1976 version), odds are, you're not coming away with a victory. Now, was it Noll's fault or is it an excuse they lost? Or does he get a pass because of Super Bowl wins?
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#23
05-31-2017, 09:38 AM

(05-31-2017, 05:56 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: As Noll put it: If I have to motivate you I'll cut you. Noll was a teacher and believed in preparation. He was a great judge of talent and heart. He doesn't get the near accolades he deserves.


Because he didn't kiss the media's ass.  That's why he never won COY during the 1970's.  I mean look at that one clip I think from 1988 when Ed Bouchette I believe pissed him off talking about maybe Noll might quit, there were four people and Noll sitting at a table.  That was his press conference.
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#24
05-31-2017, 09:41 AM

People mention the fake punt in IMO they lost the game when they lost Bradshaw for most of the first three quarters after he hit his head on the turf. I think if it wasn't an AFC title game there was no way they would have put him back in that game. I think he was concussed after that QB run.
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#25
05-31-2017, 12:58 PM

(05-31-2017, 09:38 AM)Crash Wrote:
(05-31-2017, 05:56 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: As Noll put it: If I have to motivate you I'll cut you. Noll was a teacher and believed in preparation. He was a great judge of talent and heart. He doesn't get the near accolades he deserves.


Because he didn't kiss the media's ass.  That's why he never won COY during the 1970's.  I mean look at that one clip I think from 1988 when Ed Bouchette I believe pissed him off talking about maybe Noll might quit, there were four people and Noll sitting at a table.  That was his press conference.

From what I recall, I don't think Noll kissed anybody's ass... Did you see the Monday Night game after he retired, and Al Michaels had him in the booth trying to get him to open up. It went something like this:

Barry Foster tears of a 9 yard gain of right guard. Michaels " Chuck tell us about this play". Noll " That was a good play". Dead air. On the next play Foster gets stuffed for a two yard loss. Michaels " Well Chuck, tell us about that play" Noll. " It wasn't as good as the last one". Dead air. Michaels. Ladies and Gentlemen, Chuck Noll.".

It was a classic. I wish I had the video.
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#26
05-31-2017, 01:55 PM

I liked Noll dropping F bombs during the 1989 playoff game at Houston. He was really into that game. I bet Marianne gave him an earful when he got back to Pittsburgh.
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#27
06-01-2017, 03:25 AM

(05-31-2017, 09:41 AM)Crash Wrote: People mention the fake punt in IMO they lost the game when they lost Bradshaw for most of the first three quarters after he hit his head on the turf.  I think if it wasn't an AFC title game there was no way they would have put him back in that game. I think he was concussed after that QB run.

I don't  recall that Crash. Keep in mind, the 1972 version of Bradshaw was not the same as the 1978 version. Hanratty was more than capable of leading an offense predicated on running the ball. The Steeler 72 offense was  streaky anyway, and I'm not so sure a healthy Bradshaw would have been able to pull that game out. The Dolphins D was no joke either.

What I remember was that the momentum changed dramatically after the blocked punt. That was the the undefeated Dolphins team that was totally loaded. We had Kicck and Csonka bottled up, and Warfield  a non-factor up to that play. After Siple made that first down, our D lost a lot of resolve.

I'm pretty sure it was the last game before the Super Bowl. We beat the Raiders in the divisional playoff game. The loss to the Dolphins was called the Conference Championship.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#28
06-01-2017, 04:19 AM

Yes, and back then the Dolphins played in Pittsburgh, even though they were undefeated and had the better record (of course).
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#29
06-01-2017, 06:09 AM

(06-01-2017, 04:19 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Yes, and back then the Dolphins played in Pittsburgh, even though they were undefeated and had the better record (of course).

It was a rotating series in those days.
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06-01-2017, 08:11 AM

(06-01-2017, 03:25 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(05-31-2017, 09:41 AM)Crash Wrote: People mention the fake punt in IMO they lost the game when they lost Bradshaw for most of the first three quarters after he hit his head on the turf.  I think if it wasn't an AFC title game there was no way they would have put him back in that game. I think he was concussed after that QB run.

I don't  recall that Crash. Keep in mind, the 1972 version of Bradshaw was not the same as the 1978 version. Hanratty was more than capable of leading an offense predicated on running the ball. The Steeler 72 offense was  streaky anyway, and I'm not so sure a healthy Bradshaw would have been able to pull that game out. The Dolphins D was no joke either.

What I remember was that the momentum changed dramatically after the blocked punt. That was the the undefeated Dolphins team that was totally loaded. We had Kicck and Csonka bottled up, and Warfield  a non-factor up to that play. After Siple made that first down, our D lost a lot of resolve.

I'm pretty sure it was the last game before the Super Bowl. We beat the Raiders in the divisional playoff game. The loss to the Dolphins was called the Conference Championship.

Bradshaw sat out after their first possession when he smacked his head on the turf and fumbled.  They went right down the field on that Miami defense and then he got injured.  

Right here at 5 seconds in.  The opposite view I've seen in highlights shows even worse how bad his head hit.  





That's when he got hurt.  

They put him back in in the 4th quarter down 21-10.  He threw a TD but also threw 2 picks.  It's my contention that they should have never put him back in, his head hit the turf in brutal fashion.  Even after the fake punt and Morrell TD pass the Dolphins offense still struggled.  The game turned for good when they put Griese (That took some serious balls by Shula to bench the POY in Earl Morrall) in.   

What could the Steelers lead have been built to had Bradshaw played the whole game and healthy?  Then the Dolphins get the Redskins with Billy freaking Kilmer and not Sonny Jurgenson to go with their cupcake regular season schedule.  

And these dopes still pop the cork every year?  Spare me.      

Btw hey Tim, the other end zone.  Look at it. LOL
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