Dan Marino - Gabe Rivera
Chucktownsteeler
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#1
11-19-2019, 01:32 AM

We all now how this turned out and unfortunely we never had the opportunity to see what Senior Sack's potential would have been. Even at the upper limit it would not have equaled Marion's legacy. We've all heard the reasons, drug rumors, Terry to play 5 more years, etc. His elbow did him in. 

Earily do we see history repeating itself? Strange. The Steelers drafted Edmunds with Lamar Jackson on the board. Jackson is tearing up the league and appears a strong candidate for MVP. It was thought Ben would and should play 3 more years. Now, at best we'll see Ben for 2-more years (unless he extends his contract, however unlikely). 

Still way too early in Jackson's career to compare him to Marino, but strange parallels, no doubt. 

Thoughts?


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(This post was last modified: 11-19-2019, 01:33 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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Noll and Cowher teams no more
SmashMouth and Blitzburgh!
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#2
11-19-2019, 02:13 AM

Jackson would get eaten up with the Steelers because the coaching staff would not build and offensive scheme to fit his style of play.
The Ravens totally revamped their offense to suit Jackson.

Plus with Ben being healthy showing no signs of decline the Steelers were not going QB in the first round with so many holes to fill on defense.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#3
11-19-2019, 02:25 AM

(11-19-2019, 02:13 AM)Noll and Cowher teams no more Wrote: Jackson would get eaten up with the Steelers because the coaching staff would not build and offensive scheme to fit his style of play.
The Ravens totally revamped their offense to suit Jackson.

Plus with Ben being healthy showing no signs of decline the Steelers were not going QB in the first round with so many holes to fill on defense.

Thanks, that's what I'm saying. However I think Jackson would be doing much better than Mason (although I am still a fan) in this offense, extending plays and keeping the opposing defenses honest as he can take off at a drop of a hat. 

Also, most draft expert's say Edmunds would have likely been there in Round 2, if not Round 3.


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Noll and Cowher teams no more
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#4
11-19-2019, 02:28 AM

(11-19-2019, 02:25 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 02:13 AM)Noll and Cowher teams no more Wrote: Jackson would get eaten up with the Steelers because the coaching staff would not build and offensive scheme to fit his style of play.
The Ravens totally revamped their offense to suit Jackson.

Plus with Ben being healthy showing no signs of decline the Steelers were not going QB in the first round with so many holes to fill on defense.

Thanks, that's what I'm saying. However I think Jackson would be doing much better than Mason (although I am still a fan) in this offense, extending plays and keeping the opposing defenses honest as he can take off at a drop of a hat. 

Also, most draft expert's say Edmunds would have likely been there in Round 2, if not Round 3.

Without a run game any QB including Ben would be having a tough time. IMO
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Chucktownsteeler
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#5
11-19-2019, 02:30 AM

(11-19-2019, 02:28 AM)Noll and Cowher teams no more Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 02:25 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(11-19-2019, 02:13 AM)Noll and Cowher teams no more Wrote: Jackson would get eaten up with the Steelers because the coaching staff would not build and offensive scheme to fit his style of play.
The Ravens totally revamped their offense to suit Jackson.

Plus with Ben being healthy showing no signs of decline the Steelers were not going QB in the first round with so many holes to fill on defense.

Thanks, that's what I'm saying. However I think Jackson would be doing much better than Mason (although I am still a fan) in this offense, extending plays and keeping the opposing defenses honest as he can take off at a drop of a hat. 

Also, most draft expert's say Edmunds would have likely been there in Round 2, if not Round 3.

Without a run game any QB including Ben would be having a tough time. IMO

I agree, Mason has been dealt a short hand here. Most of our skill position players on offense at this time are glorified practice squanders. I'm just not sure over time who will have the higher ceiling, Jackson or Rudolph.

Hindsight is 20-20, I'm just saying so far the similarities are eerily strange.


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Rollers
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#6
11-19-2019, 02:53 AM

who could possible argue with the Edmunds pick being our fist pick of that draft. He has consistently provided superior defensive back play and safety play. He has a ton of interceptions and is obviously one of the best DBs in the NFL. I would NEVER trade him for Jackson are you nuts????? Edmunds has hall of fame written all over him!!!! Five years after he retires he goes directly into the hall on a unanimous ballet!!!! Jackson indeed
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Chucktownsteeler
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#7
11-19-2019, 02:56 AM

I'm just saying I see eerily similar comparison to Gabe and Dan. Edmunds brother (undrafted practice squad RB) has more interceptions this year than his #1 pick little brother at safety. Maybe they should switch positions.


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Chucktownsteeler
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#8
11-27-2019, 12:50 AM

Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.


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Rollers
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#9
11-27-2019, 05:48 AM

(11-27-2019, 12:50 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.

steelers are just waiting to peak at the right time
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#10
11-27-2019, 08:45 AM

(11-27-2019, 05:48 AM)Rollers Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:50 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.

Steelers are just waiting to peak at the right time

Lol  December... 2020...?

Any thoughts we should've taken Jackson in lieu of... whoever... need to be tempered... I sincerely doubt our coaching staff (and personnel department) would have been nearly as effective tailoring an offense to his unique skill-set.
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#11
11-27-2019, 09:00 AM

(11-27-2019, 08:45 AM)bbbooger Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 05:48 AM)Rollers Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:50 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.

Steelers are just waiting to peak at the right time

Lol  December... 2020...?

Any thoughts we should've taken Jackson in lieu of... whoever... need to be tempered... I sincerely doubt our coaching staff (and personnel department) would have been nearly as effective tailoring an offense to his unique skill-set.


I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.
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#12
11-27-2019, 09:31 AM

(11-27-2019, 09:00 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 08:45 AM)bbbooger Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 05:48 AM)Rollers Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:50 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.

Steelers are just waiting to peak at the right time

Lol  December... 2020...?

Any thoughts we should've taken Jackson in lieu of... whoever... need to be tempered... I sincerely doubt our coaching staff (and personnel department) would have been nearly as effective tailoring an offense to his unique skill-set.


I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.

You and I will have to agree to disagree here Tim.  I hate the Rats, but, credit where credit's due, I believe they've done an exceptional job putting together a personnel group and developing an offensive scheme that maximizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses.  I'm on record early this year as being unconvinced Lamar is a legitimate NFL quarterback… I’ve since retracted. 5 touchdown passes is 5 touchdown passes, after all...
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2019, 09:33 AM by bbbooger.)
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dbsfgyd1
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#13
11-27-2019, 09:36 AM

(11-27-2019, 09:00 AM)No mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 08:45 AM)bbbooger Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 05:48 AM)Rollers Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:50 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.

Steelers are just waiting to peak at the right time

Not to mention
Lol  December... 2020...?

Any thoughts we should've taken Jackson in lieu of... whoever... need to be tempered... I sincerely doubt our coaching staff (and personnel department) would have been nearly as effective tailoring an offense to his unique skill-set.


I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.
Not to mention the biggest bad *ss OL in the league.
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#14
11-27-2019, 01:52 PM

(11-27-2019, 09:36 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 09:00 AM)No mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 08:45 AM)bbbooger Wrote: Not to mention
Lol  December... 2020...?

Any thoughts we should've taken Jackson in lieu of... whoever... need to be tempered... I sincerely doubt our coaching staff (and personnel department) would have been nearly as effective tailoring an offense to his unique skill-set.


I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.

Not to mention the biggest bad *ss OL in the league.

They do have an excellent line. That helps.

But mostly, it's Jackson. Coaching helps, too, but it only goes so far. This guy has talent that goes way beyond coaching and he's elevating the entire team. He's the fastest, best athlete on the field. He's very accurate. He has a strong arm. He's a great improviser who extends plays and turns losses into gains. Right now, he's playing with incredible confidence. The game is slowing down for him. The coaches have helped with the confidence. The rest is him. 

He gives me Michael Vick flashbacks, although he strikes me as a better passer than Vick was. As teams get more film on him, they're going to discover his weaknesses. It WILL happen. How he deals with it will determine if he's a Hall of Famer or a flash in the pan. 

My personal opinion: He's the real deal. But... I don't believe in the rest of the team that much. If they get into a scenario where Jackson is held in check and can't carry the team on his shoulders, the rest of the team isn't good enough to win without him. As well as they're playing right now, I think they'll be undone in the playoffs. As Chucktown said, I think they're peaking too soon.
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#15
11-27-2019, 01:58 PM

(11-27-2019, 09:31 AM)bbbooger Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 09:00 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.

You and I will have to agree to disagree here Tim.  I hate the Rats, but, credit where credit's due, I believe they've done an exceptional job putting together a personnel group and developing an offensive scheme that maximizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses.  I'm on record early this year as being unconvinced Lamar is a legitimate NFL quarterback… I’ve since retracted.  5 touchdown passes is 5 touchdown passes, after all...


I'm not saying the Rats coaches haven't done a good job with Jackson; they clearly have. I'm just saying that most of his success is due to his rare skill set. It's HIM, not coaching. 

If you want to credit coaching for plays breaking down and Jackson running for a 40 yard gain or evading pass rushers long enough to find a wide open guy 50 yards downfield, that's fine. But to me, that's HIM, not them. Some things, you simply can't coach. Some things are just God showing off by handing out talent.
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#16
11-27-2019, 07:17 PM

Regarding Jackson -

I'm not taking anything away from Lamar Jackson, he's a beast and playing exceptionally well. But the way he runs and powers forward into lineman, he wont last long

in this league. I don't wish any harm or applaud for someone to get hurt. But, I wouldn't be surprised if something happened before seasons end with the way he runs.

Is he successful? Yes. But time is going to run out for him sooner or later. All running quarterbacks get hurt with exception of Russel Wilson.
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#17
11-29-2019, 08:46 PM

(11-27-2019, 07:17 PM)Cali-Steeler Wrote: Regarding Jackson -

  I'm not taking anything away from Lamar Jackson, he's a beast and playing exceptionally well.  But the way he runs and powers forward into lineman, he wont last long
 
  in this league.  I don't wish any harm or applaud for someone to get hurt. But, I wouldn't be surprised if something happened before seasons end with the way he runs.

  Is he successful? Yes. But time is going to run out for him sooner or later. All running quarterbacks get hurt with exception of Russel Wilson
Not sure you can say that with certainty.  Someone on this board told me that Jackson would never be a starting QB in the NFL when I was pimping him for the Steelers to pick.  We took Edmumds instead......  ugh
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#18
11-30-2019, 07:16 AM

Would you have benched/traded/not extended Ben so Jackson could have been named the starter and developed similarly to how he has in Baltimore? Remember, Ben's injury is the only reason we're even discussing quarterbacks at this point. If he stays healthy in this alternate universe and gets his contract extended, there's an excellent chance that Jackson doesn't take a snap for the entirety of his rookie contract; the only way he gets on the field is as a running back or receiver.
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#19
12-01-2019, 10:34 AM

(11-27-2019, 09:00 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 08:45 AM)bbbooger Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 05:48 AM)Rollers Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:50 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Lamar Jackson is looking good, as are the ravens. Just wondering if they are peaking too early.

Steelers are just waiting to peak at the right time

Lol  December... 2020...?

Any thoughts we should've taken Jackson in lieu of... whoever... need to be tempered... I sincerely doubt our coaching staff (and personnel department) would have been nearly as effective tailoring an offense to his unique skill-set.


I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.

Operative word:   Yet.

Randall Cunningham, anyone?
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#20
12-01-2019, 10:47 AM

(12-01-2019, 10:34 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 09:00 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I don't think coaching has that much to do with Jackson's success. He just possesses an extremely rare skill set that teams don't know how to deal with yet. 

As far as the coaching, it's pretty much just simplify the offense with a run-first focus and let Jackson be Jackson.

Operative word:   Yet.

Randall Cunningham, anyone?

Yep... although Jackson is more of a bad ass than Cunningham. Randall wasn't a "tough guy." Jackson is. Cunningham was an athlete who played football. Jackson is a football player who is also an amazing athlete. There's a major difference, IMO. 

I do think it's only a matter of time, though. Super-athletic QB's rarely seem to be able to sustain their success long-term.
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