Steelers vs. Rats check-in / game thread
Rollers
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#61
12-30-2019, 11:03 AM

I got nothing left to say. tomlin will be here for years. we will suck for years. I'm convinced I'll never live to see another super bowl win by the Steelers. The Rooney's will keep this clown and his staff forever. I gave up on my Pirates years ago and now have given up on the Steelers. Something I never thought I would ever say. The Browns will be better than us next year the ravens are the class of the division for years now and I will be forced to watch Tomlin on the sidelines with those stupid shades.. At least I have cancer to concentrate on beating at this point. I truly detest this organization and what it has become. Sorry
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bbbooger
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#62
12-30-2019, 11:57 AM

(12-30-2019, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: See you guys Round 2 of the draft :-)

TIM - Once again, Brother - THANK YOU for yet another fantastic season.  I wish you, the kids, and the lovely wife a fantastic new year!!!

HUGE Plus 1 to this ^^^ Thanks, Tim!
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Garrett Garlits
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#63
12-30-2019, 12:23 PM

Take away the first three games and the last three games and we had a hell of a year.

The main problem facing Tomlin (who will more than likely be extended by a year if he wants to be to make this season a mulligan and give him two competitive years left on his contract) is to find some way to get rid of Fichtner without pushing Ben into retirement. Mason and Duck may or may not be competent NFL quarterbacks, but we'll never know with this schmuck and his creep-and-crawl offense. For that matter, the offense didn't look much better WITH Ben. Get rid of Fichtner, give Mason and Duck a summer with a competent quarterback coach of some kind, and then we'll see what we've got.

My guess is that Mason could be a starter with a bit of work, if not a superstar. Duck's a bit hard to read; he's got more talent than his detractors say he does, but he's raw and needs a ton of work. If we have the same three quarterbacks next year, I'd install Mason as the backup without a competition and make him prove to me that he can't handle it. Unfortunately, he won't get another chance to be the starter unless Ben gets hurt again, so he may leave without the Steelers ever knowing what they truly had in him. Same with Duck, though his ceiling looks to be a good deal lower at best. Paxton's just a warm body who we'll probably never see, so I don't care what happens to him.

That all goes out the window if Ben changes his mind and hangs it up. In that case, the offense needs to be completely retooled starting with the line, which fell apart without Munchak. I know there's no way we could have kept him (I believe his story about family being the main reason he left, in case you're wondering), but promoting his assistant was a disastrous move. I don't claim to know the ins and he outs of line play like an expert would; all I know is that no quarterback had time to throw on a consistent basis and Pouncey mysteriously forgot how to snap the ball. You can also blame the line in part for the anemic running game, though Fichtner's playcalling also had something to do with that.

By the way, I won't even address who the starting quarterback should be if Ben either decides to retire or quits if Fichtner's fired. There are so many ways to find quarterbacks, and the Steelers should explore all of them. The same goes if Ben takes a while to come back. I know I sound a lot like the people I criticize for not giving names to be the next coach if Tomlin should leave, but I'm too disgusted to care about being a hypocrite right now. Let's just see what happens.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2019, 06:59 PM by Garrett Garlits.)
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Rollers
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#64
12-30-2019, 05:09 PM

(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Take away the first three games and the last three games and we had a hell of a year.

The main problem facing Tomlin (who will more than likely be extended by a year if he wants to be to make this season a mulligan and give him two competitive years left on his contract) is to find some way to get rid of Fichtner without pushing Ben into retirement. Mason and Duck may or may not be competent NFL  quarterbacks, but we'll never know with this schmuck and his creep-nd-crawl offense. For that matter, the offense didn't look much better WITH Ben. Get rid of Fichtner, give Mason and Duck a summer with a competent quarterback coach of some kind, and then we'll see what we've got.

My guess is that Mason could be a starter with a bit of work, if not a superstar. Duck's a bit hard to read; he's got more talent than his detractors say he does, but he's raw and needs a ton of work. If we have the same three quarterbacks next year, I'd install Mason as the backup without a competition and make him prove to me that he can't handle it. Unfortunately, he won't get another chance to be the starter unless Ben gets hurt again, so he may leave here without the Steelers ever knowing what they truly had in him. Same with Duck, though his ceiling looks to be a good deal lower at best. Paxton's just a warm body we'll probably never see, so I don't care what happens to him.

That all goes out the window if Ben changes his mind and hangs it up. In that case, the offense needs to be completely retooled starting with the line, which fell apart without Munchak. I know there's no way we could have kept him (I believe his story about family being the main reason he left, in case you're wondering), but promoting his assistant was a disastrous move. I don't claim to know the ins and he outs of line play like an expert would; all I know is that no quarterback had time to throw on a consistent basis and Pouncey mysteriously forgot how to snap the ball. You can also blame the line in part for the anemic running game, though Fichtner's playcalling also had something to do with that.

By the way, I won't even address who the starting quarterback should be if Ben either decides to retire or quits if Fichtner's fired. There are so many ways to find quarterbacks, and the Steelers should explore all of them. The same goes if Ben takes a while to come back. I know that I sound a lot like the people I criticize for not giving names to be the next coach if Tomin should leave, but I'm too disgusted to care about being a hypocrite right now. Let's just see what happens.
agreed   i'm to sick to reallly care about this right now but I love my Steelers.  I just want them to be relevant again
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Garrett Garlits
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#65
12-30-2019, 05:51 PM

By the way, Rollers, hope you feel better soon.
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Krunch
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#66
12-31-2019, 12:56 AM

WOOT!  WOOT!

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"Just give me a six-pack and 30 minutes to rest and lets go out and play 'em again!"  
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mcmillenandwife
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#67
12-31-2019, 03:38 AM

(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Take away the first three games and the last three games and we had a hell of a year.

Seriously? Laugh Garrett, are you serious here, or is that tongue-in-cheek? It's difficult to tell with you sometimes. 



(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: The main problem facing Tomlin (who will more than likely be extended by a year if he wants to be to make this season a mulligan and give him two competitive years left on his contract) is to find some way to get rid of Fichtner without pushing Ben into retirement. Mason and Duck may or may not be competent NFL  quarterbacks, but we'll never know with this schmuck and his creep-and-crawl offense. For that matter, the offense didn't look much better WITH Ben. Get rid of Fichtner, give Mason and Duck a summer with a competent quarterback coach of some kind, and then we'll see what we've got. 

I'm far less worried about Fichtner than I am our total lack of playmakers. We've got a defense loaded with first-round talent that came around about a year too late, but we've got SQUAT on offense. Juju regressed HARD this year; perhaps the tragic loss of Daryl Drake (WR coach) last off-season contributed? Injuries certainly contributed, the departure of AB contributed big time... but there seems to be something more going on there. The guy just disappeared. Not only can he suddenly not get open to save his life, but the signature clutch plays, the crazy-good catches, the "football player" moments when he overpowers someone, and most of all, the infectious enthusiasm just vanished this year. The one thing that didn't go away, unfortunately, was his knack for coughing the ball up at the worst possible moment. 

Juju is a mystery to me. He should've been "the guy" this year, regardless of who was under center. Instead, he completely turtled. 

So who's next in line? James Washington? Laugh Sure, if your goals are drops, inconsistency, failure to create separation and low football IQ. He had a few bright moments this year, but mostly, he underachieved. Diontae Johnson? Now, he DID show some grit and promise as the season went on. I'm encouraged and hopeful that year 2 will be a big jump in production for him, but he doesn't strike me as being capable of being more than a #3 receiver (if that) if he was playing on a roster with capable wide-outs. Here's hoping his low yards-per-catch average is a product of poor QB play. 

The scariest thing is, as average/below average as both Washington and Johnson are, they both outperformed Juju by a WIDE margin. How/why the heck did that happen??? 


(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: My guess is that Mason could be a starter with a bit of work, if not a superstar. Duck's a bit hard to read; he's got more talent than his detractors say he does, but he's raw and needs a ton of work. If we have the same three quarterbacks next year, I'd install Mason as the backup without a competition and make him prove to me that he can't handle it. Unfortunately, he won't get another chance to be the starter unless Ben gets hurt again, so he may leave without the Steelers ever knowing what they truly had in him. Same with Duck, though his ceiling looks to be a good deal lower at best. Paxton's just a warm body who we'll probably never see, so I don't care what happens to him.

That all goes out the window if Ben changes his mind and hangs it up. In that case, the offense needs to be completely retooled starting with the line, which fell apart without Munchak. I know there's no way we could have kept him (I believe his story about family being the main reason he left, in case you're wondering), but promoting his assistant was a disastrous move. I don't claim to know the ins and he outs of line play like an expert would; all I know is that no quarterback had time to throw on a consistent basis and Pouncey mysteriously forgot how to snap the ball. You can also blame the line in part for the anemic running game, though Fichtner's playcalling also had something to do with that.

Other than the ridiculous Wildcat plays we ran this year, our struggles were less about poor play calling and more about lack of offensive talent.

Rudolph and Duck are not starting QB material. If we're stuck with them, get ready for a 6-10 (or worse) season, because you can't count on the defense to produce the kind of turnover numbers they did this year. We made it to 8-8 because of turnovers. Period. As a self-proclaimed football historian, Laugh I can tell you that it is extremely rare to see defenses that aren't loaded with Hall of Famers put up consecutive seasons with league-leading turnover numbers. There's a certain amount of luck involved in creating turnovers, and our defense had Lady Luck smiling on them this year. That kind of thing is RARE year-over-year, so I don't expect a repeat next season. We're going to need significant help from the offense just to maintain our current level of 8-8 mediocrity. 

To be a winner/contender again, we're going to need to add substantial talent to the offense. Even if he returns (I hope and pray he does, and I think he will), Ben alone won't be enough. We need to somehow keep our defense together (franchise Bud DuPree?) and add some REAL threats to the offense. We need a solid veteran possession receiver, we need a speedster at WR (preferably a big guy), we need a legit TE, and we need someone more durable than Conner (who is more about heart than talent, even though I love the way the guy plays the game). That's a LOT to ask for one off-season.


(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: By the way, I won't even address who the starting quarterback should be if Ben either decides to retire or quits if Fichtner's fired. There are so many ways to find quarterbacks, and the Steelers should explore all of them. The same goes if Ben takes a while to come back. I know I sound a lot like the people I criticize for not giving names to be the next coach if Tomlin should leave, but I'm too disgusted to care about being a hypocrite right now. Let's just see what happens.


Yeah, I think if Ben stays, Fichtner stays. Not saying Fichtner is a great or even good coordinator, but to me, he's not the core problem. Ben works well with him and put up 5000+ yards in 2018. Our problem then was a defense that gave up too many points, not our offense. Put the 2019 defense with the 2018 offense and you're probably hoisting a Lombardi.

But we also had AB in 2018, and despite a slightly sub-par performance (for him) and all of the off-the-field shenanigans, he caught 104 balls and scored 15 TDs. That's 4 more TDs than our entire WR corps had this year (11). Scared

We went from #2 in passing yards last year to #31 in passing yards this year.  Pi_shocked

I hate to even bring up the prospect of Ben not returning. I can't stand the thought of that. So assuming he returns, our main problem will be a lack of play-makers on offense. We need to add talent at WR, TE and RB. Perhaps some will come in the draft, but with the clock ticking, I think we need to find a way to find these players in the form of veterans through free agency. We need a "Jerome Bettis moment." We struck gold with Minkah Fitzpatrick; we need to do it again, this time on offense. 

Otherwise, I fear we'll be sitting home for a 3rd straight post-season next year, even with Ben.
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bbbooger
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#68
12-31-2019, 07:19 AM

(12-31-2019, 03:38 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: ...

...


(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: ...

...

Juju is a mystery to me. He should've been "the guy" this year, regardless of who was under center. Instead, he completely turtled. 

...


(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: ...

...


(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: ...

...
Not so much of a mystery to me.  I'm not convinced JuJu truly wants to be great, as in willing to pay the price to be GREAT.  JuJu is concerned about having a great "brand" (whatever that is...), but he's gonna have to show more than he has thus far if he really wants to maximize his potential.  AB may have been a head-case, second to none, but no-one ever doubted his work ethic nor his desire for genuine greatness.  That's the common element for all of the truly great ones:  they're also the hardest workers... (Jerry Rice comes to mind here...) Larry Fitz played a number of years, maybe even the majority of his career, with mediocre, or worse, QBs and yet he never turtled (I'm gonna "borrow" that one, Tim Pi_wink1 ) the way JuJu did this year.  No one ever doubted his greatness!  Right now JuJu is just a kid with above average potential.  Only he can decide how much he does with that potential.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2019, 07:20 AM by bbbooger.)
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Garrett Garlits
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#69
12-31-2019, 07:53 AM

I'm absolutely serious, Tim, Going 8-2 in the middle of the year is a great accomplishment, especially with the players the Steelers had to use to do it. If they'd started 0-6 and put together a run like that over the rest of the year, people would be using duck calls all spring and summer and anointing Hodges as Ben's successor instead of flat-out saying that he'll never even be a camp; arm again. The same goes for Rudolph.

Right now, I don't think they've got the cap room to do much with the offense except if you start cutting offensive linemen, and if you do that, Ben will almost certainly retire, as loyal as he is to them. He's gone so far as to publicly state before he got hurt that if Pouncey and Ramon Foster left the team, he was finished. Foster in particular is a candidate to be a cap casualty, so we'll see if Ben's a man of his word or not. (I'm not sure where I read it, but I know I read it somewhere, and I don't think he was kidding, particularly about Pouncey.)

It comes down to this: is Ben's reputation worth hoping that he's the one and only missing piece, since the Steelers probably won't have enough money to make ANY of the moves Tim mentions, let alone all four? Or is it better to use Ben the way the Giants used Eli Manning this year, as in use him to start the season, but put the emphasis on either Mason's or Duck's development and hope it happens quickly so Ben can gracefully call it a career after spending most of his last two seasons as a modern answer to Charlie Batch?

We've been looking for a veteran backup who can play if needed but hopefully doesn't have to; who's to say it shouldn't be Ben himself if the best we're liable to do is .500 with an outside shot at the playoffs? If we're not going to be a legit Super Bowl contender until Mason (or someone else) takes over and gets players around him, shouldn't that process while Ben's still on the roster and can step in for a game or two in case the other quarterback gets hurt?

All of this becomes moot if Ben returns and looks great while throwing. If he's able to be ninety to ninety-five percent of what he was when he was last truly healthy, of course he should start. But if a Steeler quarterback's going to struggle to be effective next year, I'd rather have it be someone with his career in front of him than an old man who looks like he should have never come back in the first place, especially to a team that probably won't contend for a Super Bowl without a major overhaul around him even if he comes all the way back.

As for JuJu, get used to it. If a player is charismatic enough to have a national brand, that brand will be his main focus, mostly because it will (hopefully) transcend football. JuJu will be able to sell pizzas or whatever he wants as long as he has even a decent NFL career; there's no rule that says he has to be "great". In fact, we may see a time where continuing to play football past a certain point might actually hurt their "brands" because they could be using that time to shoot commercials, movies, or TV shows. That's one of the reasons Jim Brown retired, and if it was good enough for him, why wouldn't it be good enough for guys like JuJu?
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2019, 07:07 PM by Garrett Garlits.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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#70
01-03-2020, 03:55 AM

(12-30-2019, 12:23 PM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Take away the first three games and the last three games and we had a hell of a year.
Don't quite understand this but if you took away the losses from any team they'd have had a heck of a year. 
If I'm remembering correctly 2018 was the same pattern. Could mean something, could mean nothing. A slow start of the season, solid in the mid-year and crash and burn at the end. 
Interesting.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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mcmillenandwife
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#71
01-03-2020, 04:34 AM

(12-31-2019, 07:53 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: I'm absolutely serious, Tim, Going 8-2 in the middle of the year is a great accomplishment, especially with the players the Steelers had to use to do it. 

It was significant and surprising considering the injury situation and awful QB situation. They definitely overachieved and there was some truly outstanding, opportunistic play by the defense. Minkah was flat-out great. The 0-3 start can be understood and forgiven. But the 0-3 finish -- losing to a Jets team we should've been able to handle and a Ravens team playing a bunch of reserves -- was embarrassing, and in my view, it undermines a lot of what Tomlin and his staff had accomplished during that 8-2 run. 

8-2 matters if you make the playoffs. But by finishing 0-3, we squandered the opportunity. 

My biggest (and really only) beef with Tomlin is his penchant for squandering opportunities late in the season.  0-3 to finish the season is just the latest example. It undermines the remarkable success we had in the middle.


(12-31-2019, 07:53 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Right now, I don't think they've got the cap room to do much with the offense... the Steelers probably won't have enough money to make ANY of the moves Tim mentions...

Sad but true. Hopefully, they can find a way to do some restructuring and bring in a playmaker or two.


(12-31-2019, 07:53 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: All of this becomes moot if Ben returns and looks great while throwing. If he's able to be ninety to ninety-five percent of what he was when he was last truly healthy, of course he should start. But if a Steeler quarterback's going to struggle to be effective next year, I'd rather have it be someone with his career in front of him than an old man who looks like he should have never come back in the first place, especially to a team that probably won't contend for a Super Bowl without a major overhaul around him even if he comes all the way back.

Whether it's Ben or Mason or someone else, we're missing other pieces on offense. We need a playmaker. We need to find a way. 

Ben needs a playmaker to contend for a Super Bowl. Mason (or whoever) needs a playmaker to contend for a playoff spot. 



(12-31-2019, 07:53 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: As for JuJu, get used to it. If a player is charismatic enough to have a national brand, that brand will be his main focus, mostly because it will (hopefully) transcend football. JuJu will be able to sell pizzas or whatever he wants as long as he has even a decent NFL career; there's no rule that says he has to be "great". In fact, we may see a time where continuing to play football past a certain point might actually hurt their "brands" because they could be  using that time to shoot commercials, movies, or TV shows. That's one of the reasons Jim Brown retired, and if it was good enough for him, why wouldn't it be good enough for guys like JuJu?


Juju's brand all but disappeared this year because he played so poorly. The only reason he had/has a "brand" was because he had an outstanding 2018 on the field. 

BTW, mentioning Jim Brown in the same breath with Juju is ludicrous. Laugh Mostly because Juju is a much better actor.  Pi_bigsmile
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Chucktownsteeler
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#72
01-03-2020, 05:07 AM

(12-30-2019, 11:57 AM)bbbooger Wrote:
(12-30-2019, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: See you guys Round 2 of the draft :-)

TIM - Once again, Brother - THANK YOU for yet another fantastic season.  I wish you, the kids, and the lovely wife a fantastic new year!!!

HUGE Plus 1 to this ^^^ Thanks, Tim!

Agreed.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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