Polamalu - Faneca H.O.F. finalist
Chucktownsteeler
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#1
01-03-2020, 11:49 PM

Former Pittsburgh Steelers safety Troy Polamalu and guard Alan Faneca were both named Thursday as two of the 15 modern-era finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2020.

Polamalu, who is a first-time eligible finalists, was selected by the Steelers in the first round of the 2003 NFL Draft, the 16th pick overall, out of USC. He went on to play 12 seasons in Pittsburgh and his career ended with him being a two-time Super Bowl champion, a four-time first team All-Pro selection, a two-time second team All-Pro selection, the NFL Defensive Player of the Year (2010), an eight-time Pro Bowl selection and a member of the NFL 2000s All-Decade Team and Steelers All-Time Team.

In his 12 seasons with the Steelers, Polamalu recorded 32 total regular season interceptions in addition to three more in the playoffs.  He registered 14 forced fumbles and recovered seven total fumbles. Five of those regular season takeaways that Polamalu registered during his career in Pittsburgh he returned for touchdowns and he also returned one for a score in a playoff game. He is credited with making 778 total regular season tackles during his career and 12 total sacks.

As for Faneca, he has been a finalists the last four years. Faneca, who was originally selected 13th overall by the Steelers in the 1998 NFL Draft, was a six-time All-Pro selection during his 13-year NFL career. He was also was selected to nine Pro Bowls and named to the Steelers All-Time Team in 2007 and the NFL 2000’s All-Decade Team.
Faneca played 10 years with the Steelers before rounding out his career with the New York Jets and Arizona Cardinals. He won one Super Bowl with the Steelers in 2005.

Former Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward, who was a Hall of Fame semifinalists again this year, failed to make it past that stage in 2020.

The Hall of Fame Board recently passed a resolution that suspended the Hall of Fame’s Selection Committee Bylaws for the Class of 2020 election cycle only. The measure is intended to honor the NFL’s Centennial Celebration through a special Centennial Class that will be comprised of 20 members in 2020. The group will include five Modern-Era players to come from the list announced today in addition to 10 Seniors (a player who has been retired for more than 25 seasons), three Contributors (an individual other than a player or coach) and two Coaches.

The 15 Modern-Era finalists will next be presented to the full 48-member Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee during its annual meeting on “Selection Saturday,” on Feb. 1, 2020, the day before Super Bowl LIV. The Selection Committee will elect five Modern-Era players for the Class of 2020.

The determination of the Seniors, Contributors and Coaches will be made by a special 25-person Centennial “Blue-Ribbon” Panel who will review the backlog of deserving Seniors, Coaches and Contributors. The Blue-Ribbon Panel is comprised of Hall of Fame Selectors, Pro Football Hall of Famers, media members, football historians and industry experts.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2020 will be introduced during NFL Honors, a two-hour primetime awards special to air nationally on the eve of Super Bowl LIV at 9 p.m. (ET and PT) on FOX. NFL Honors will be taped earlier that evening at the Adrienne Arsht Center in Miami when the Hall of Fame’s Centennial Class of 2020 will be brought together for the first time. In addition, the NFL and The Associated Press will announce their annual accolades in this awards show with the winners on hand to accept their awards.

The Centennial Class of 2020 will be formally enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame during the annual Enshrinement Week Powered by Johnson Controls from Aug. 6-9, 2020 and the Centennial Celebration in Canton on Sept. 16-19, 2020.


Read more: https://steelersdepot.com/2020/01/polama...finalists/


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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Cali-Steeler
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#2
01-04-2020, 11:55 AM

I wonder if Troy shows up for this?
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mcmillenandwife
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01-04-2020, 12:11 PM

Troy will get in, for sure. 

Hopefully, Donnie Shell will join him!

Faneca is probably worthy as well, although I still haven't forgiven him for leaving. I don't really view him as a Steeler anymore.
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dbsfgyd1
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#4
01-06-2020, 12:01 PM

(01-04-2020, 12:11 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Troy will get in, for sure. 

Hopefully, Donnie Shell will join him!

Faneca is probably worthy as well, although I still haven't forgiven him for leaving. I don't really view him as a Steeler anymore.

Re: Faneca,

If I were an offensive lineman, the last OC I’d want to work for is Bruce Arians. I don’t blame him one bit for moving on.
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mcmillenandwife
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01-06-2020, 01:15 PM

(01-06-2020, 12:01 PM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 12:11 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Troy will get in, for sure. 

Hopefully, Donnie Shell will join him!

Faneca is probably worthy as well, although I still haven't forgiven him for leaving. I don't really view him as a Steeler anymore.

Re: Faneca,

If I were an offensive lineman, the last OC I’d want to work for is Bruce Arians. I don’t blame him one bit for moving on.


Valid point.  Thumbsup
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RaynorShyne
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#6
01-08-2020, 12:55 PM

If Troy isn't a first ballot - I don't know what is.

Faneca *should* be strongly considered, however I put him behind L.C. Greenwood, Donnie Shell, and my personal crutch - Greg Lloyd
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mcmillenandwife
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#7
01-08-2020, 02:18 PM

(01-08-2020, 12:55 PM)RaynorShyne Wrote: If Troy isn't a first ballot  - I don't know what is.

Faneca *should* be strongly considered, however I put him behind L.C. Greenwood, Donnie Shell, and my personal crutch - Greg Lloyd

Troy is as close to a sure thing as it gets.  Thumbsup

Donnie Shell is who I REALLY want to see go in. Wish L.C. was getting the respect he deserves as well.

Man, I loved Greg Lloyd. One of my all-time favorites. Rod Woodson and Greg Lloyd were my guys. I don't think Lloyd is HoF-worthy, however.
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Cali-Steeler
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#8
01-09-2020, 08:07 AM

I agree with you TIm, But what I dont understand with the H.O.F these days > They induct guys like Champ Baily? I'm like WTH? Really? I can think of a million guys more deserving.

Greg Lloyd Over Baily....
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#9
01-09-2020, 08:48 AM

Lloyd earned five straight Pro Bowl selections that included three straight All-Pro nods from 1993-1996. In the process, Pittsburgh became one of the best defenses in football, earning the nickname Blitzburgh as the Steelers won three division titles from 1992-95 while helping the Steelers advance to Super Bowl XXX.

Lloyd was the NFL's best linebacker during the 1990s

Then again - Andy Russell isn't in either.
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mcmillenandwife
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#10
01-09-2020, 08:58 AM

(01-09-2020, 08:07 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote: I agree with you TIm, But what I dont understand with the H.O.F these days > They induct guys like Champ Baily? I'm like WTH? Really? I can think of a million guys more deserving.

  Greg Lloyd  Over Baily....


I dunno, man... I think Champ Bailey was very deserving. Loooong, very productive career. Dominant at his position and a very complete player. Dude made the Pro Bowl every year. 

Lloyd wasn't good enough for long enough IMO. He had a small window in there where he was flippin' SCARY, maybe 4-5 years. Such a bad ass. King of the forced fumble, and during that span, he was as complete a player as any LB in the league. But it was too short a time for the Hall, I think. 

A Lynn Swann or Gayle Sayers can get away with short careers. They were such uniquely gifted players, and in the case of Swann in particular, he defined his position for a generation. But as much as I love Lloyd, he wasn't that "one of a kind" talent like those guys. He was pretty damn great for a short time, but I think he needed to have a 15-year career instead of 10. 

That said, Lloyd is still one of my favorite players of all time, second only to Rod Woodson from the 90's-era.
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RaynorShyne
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#11
01-09-2020, 09:46 AM

Ok, ok. I'll capitulate on Lloyd (and I'll not bitch about Ernie Nevers 54 total games, nor Gayle Sayers 5 years, nor Terrell Davis...)

....But what about Hines Ward? Hines Ward did everything Swann did - and more.
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01-09-2020, 01:04 PM

(01-09-2020, 09:46 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Ok, ok.  I'll capitulate on Lloyd (and I'll not bitch about Ernie Nevers 54 total games, nor Gayle Sayers 5 years, nor Terrell Davis...)

....But what about Hines Ward?   Hines Ward did everything Swann did - and more.


Love Hines Ward. I believe he's probably Hall of Fame-worthy. A great story, an over-achiever, a hard worker, a remarkably physical and consistent player. Despite the fact that the Steelers kept using high-round draft picks in an effort to replace him, Ward persevered. The guy wasn't just a WR... he was a football player. 

But you'll notice I only said Ward is "probably" worthy of the Hall. And I'll tell you why. 

I feel supremely confident in what I'm about to say: Hines Ward would've ridden the bench behind Lynn Swann and John Stallworth had he played for the Steelers in the 1970's. He would've been a special teams ace and the slot receiver in those somewhat infrequent moments when the Steelers went three-wide. No way would he have supplanted a healthy Swann & Stallworth.

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RaynorShyne
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#13
01-11-2020, 10:28 AM

I'm up for the debate :-)

We have the complications of era; the 70s were much more rough and tumble. Ward played at 6' - even, 205lbs. Like you said, he was a football player. Tough as nails.

What Ward did to Reed : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfM6VLqh95M

or Rivers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QmrQySukr4

or some hapless Titan off the line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt7XX-Kwx64

He wasn't just physical - he was durable. During the middle 10 years of his career he missed TWO games.

He ran all the routes. He played wide, he was a flanker, he played slot. He ran the flys, the posts, the curls - he happily went over the middle.

In the 70's - he'd have gone toe-to-toe with Mel Blount. He most certainly wouldn't have always won - but he'd win.

I love Lynn Swann to death. - but he was fragile. He only played a full season twice. His longest reception was 68 yards. Hines exceeded that four times.

Pro bowls? In his career, Swann went to the Pro Bowl 3 times. Only once as a first teamer. Ward went to four.

In his statistical best year, Swann had 61 rec for 880 yards (never went over 1000 yards - this was his highest) with 11 TDs
--- he was the 8th best receiver in the NFL that year
- 6 receivers had more yards , four (Jefferson, Carmichael, Largent, and Walker) went over 1,000 yards.
- 6 players (three receivers) had more receptions

In his statistical best year, Ward had 112 rec for 1329 yards with 12 TDs
--- he was the 2nd best receiver in the NFL that year - behind only Marvin Harrison's NFL record setting 143 catch year
- Ward had the highest catch % of any receiver with over 50 receptions (42 wide receivers)
- 3 receivers had more yards , four (Toomer, Moss, and Harrison) went over 1,000 yards.
- Only Harrison had more receptions

Each has a Super Bowl MVP trophy.

Tim, Like I said - I *LOVE* Swanny - but not only would I *NOT* put him above Ward, I'd put him behind Ward, AB, and Stallworth.

Did Ward play during the pass-happy years? Yes.

Swann played during the run-era where teams were stacking the box for Franco and Rocky.

I want them all. Imagine Swann and Stallworth on the outside, with Hines in the slot.

I don't denigrate Swan AT ALL - I just think Hines should be in the Hall.

In the 70's team? Swann would start - but the minute Tatum put his ass on the bench, Ward would crack-back him and start the rest of the season.
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mcmillenandwife
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#14
01-11-2020, 02:04 PM

(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: I love Lynn Swann to death.  - but he was fragile.  He only played a full season twice.    

Okay, let's stop right there. 

First, you're wrong about Swann only playing a full season twice. He finished 3 full seasons in the '70's... the same number as John Stallworth. Was Stallworth fragile, too? It was a brutal time for WR's. 

Secondly (and more importantly), there was nothing "fragile" about Lynn Swann. Nothing. Stop buying into the George Atkinson's bullshit propaganda.  

Swann played in the most brutal era for receivers in Pro Football history, and the guy lived over the middle. He wasn't running fly patterns every other play like Cliff Branch... Swann did the lion's share of his work underneath. He took multiple shots on a weekly basis that were WAY illegal by the time Ward played. I've seen Swann take shots comparable to AB's hit from Vontaze Burfict and bounce right up. Meanwhile, AB literally lost his flippin' mind after that hit.


(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: He wasn't just physical - he was durable.  During the middle 10 years of his career he missed TWO games.    

He ran all the routes.  He played wide, he was a flanker, he played slot.   He ran the flys, the posts, the curls - he happily went over the middle.   

In the 70's - he'd have gone toe-to-toe with Mel Blount.   He most certainly wouldn't have always won - but he'd win.  


Hines was incredibly physical and durable, no question. One of the most physical WR's in NFL history. Definitely more physical than Swann (or Stallworth, for that matter).

But Swann was a much more complete wide receiver. Better hands, better route-running, better in the clutch, better over the middle, better deep, better in tight coverage, more acrobatic, faster (although only slightly... Swann wasn't a burner). And a record-setting punt returner to boot. He was also a damn good blocker, although not at the incredible level of Ward. 

Not sure what Mel Blount has to do with any of this, but I agree, Ward vs Blount would've been an entertaining match-up. I'd pay to see that!


(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Pro bowls?  In his career, Swann went to the Pro Bowl 3 times.  Only once as a first teamer.   Ward went to four.

In his statistical best year, Swann had 61 rec for 880 yards (never went over 1000 yards - this was his highest) with 11 TDs
--- he was the 8th best receiver in the NFL that year
- 6 receivers had more yards , four (Jefferson, Carmichael, Largent, and Walker) went over 1,000 yards.
- 6 players (three receivers) had more receptions

In his statistical best year, Ward had 112 rec for 1329 yards with 12 TDs
--- he was the 2nd best receiver in the NFL that year - behind only Marvin Harrison's NFL record setting 143 catch year
- Ward had the highest catch % of any receiver with over 50 receptions (42 wide receivers) 
- 3 receivers had more yards , four (Toomer, Moss, and Harrison) went over 1,000 yards.
- Only Harrison had more receptions

Each has a Super Bowl MVP trophy.

Swann was a 1st-team All Pro, something Ward never achieved. And Swann made the Pro Bowl in 3 of his first 4 years as a starter... on a RIDICULOUSLY run-focused team... and he would've made it 4 out of 4 if not for the concussion in '76, despite the fact that the Steelers went much of the season with a rookie QB and let the air out of the ball. And even in '76, he was lighting it up again by the end of the season. 

Swann was also the top vote-getter for the NFL's All-70s team (designated at the end of the decade by the Pro Football Hall of Fame), behind only OJ Simpson. 

As was the case in 1975, Swann was also the BEST receiver in the NFL in '78. He didn't have the best stats, but he was the most feared, the most talented and the absolute class of the league. He set the standard. Are you making the argument that Reggie Rucker was somehow better than Lynn Swann because he had more yards in 1978? Laugh Stats do not even begin to tell the story with Lynn. 

And if you go back and look, you'll find Ward made a couple of those Pro Bowls as an alternate because players chosen above him bowed out. 

If we're going to compare stats, then here's one I find more meaningful than perhaps any other: Swann scored 1 TD for every 6 passes he caught in his career Scared which is nearly twice as good as Ward (1 TD for every 11 passes). Not to mention, Swann's avg. per catch was 16.2 in the regular season and 18.9 in the post season; Ward's averages were a pedestrian 12.1 and 13.4, respectively. 

All that said, stats between the '70s and '00s are impossible to compare apples to apples. It's apples to watermelons. It's really not possible. 

Hell, on paper, Swann's stats aren't even particularly impressive for the '70s. You can't capture his intangibles -- which are what truly set him apart -- on a stat sheet. But there's a reason he was Jerry Rice's hero. There's a reason Swann defined the position for an entire generation. There's a reason that, 38 years after his retirement, people still refer to acrobatic catches as "Swann-like." Ward is mostly remembered for his $#!t-eating grin (man, I miss that!) and his jaw-breaking blocks. 

Not trying to knock Ward, obviously... but IMO, he's just not in same class as Swann talent-wise. Again, a major factor in Ward's greatness was his longevity and physicality. But you'll never convince me he was an elite pass catcher at the level of Lynn Swann. Or John Stallworth.

And that's Ward's challenge for the Hall. He has solid numbers for the era. Pretty outstanding, really. And Ward has some great intangibles, too. The amazing blocking, great special teams play... stats can't convey those things. 

BTW, Ward does have a Super Bowl MVP. And he deserved it. But Swann played better than Ward in all three Super Bowls he started, despite only earning one MVP. 

I'm going to stop now, because I don't like making a case against Ward for the Hall of Fame. I think he's deserving, and I hope he makes it. I just don't think he's quite in the same class as Swann and Stallworth.

(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: In the 70's team?  Swann would start - but the minute Tatum put his ass on the bench, Ward would crack-back him and start the rest of the season.

More Raiders mythology. Eyes Tatum never put Swann on the bench. Never.
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RaynorShyne
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#15
01-11-2020, 03:41 PM

(01-11-2020, 02:04 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: I love Lynn Swann to death.  - but he was fragile.  He only played a full season twice.    

Okay, let's stop right there. 

First, you're wrong about Swann only playing a full season twice. He finished 3 full seasons in the '70's... the same number as John Stallworth. Was Stallworth fragile, too? It was a brutal time for WR's. 

Secondly (and more importantly), there was nothing "fragile" about Lynn Swann. Nothing. Stop buying into the George Atkinson's bullshit propaganda.  

Swann played in the most brutal era for receivers in Pro Football history, and the guy lived over the middle. He wasn't running fly patterns every other play like Cliff Branch... Swann did the lion's share of his work underneath. He took multiple shots on a weekly basis that were WAY illegal by the time Ward played. I've seen Swann take shots comparable to AB's hit from Vontaze Burfict and bounce right up. Meanwhile, AB literally lost his flippin' mind after that hit.


(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: He wasn't just physical - he was durable.  During the middle 10 years of his career he missed TWO games.    

He ran all the routes.  He played wide, he was a flanker, he played slot.   He ran the flys, the posts, the curls - he happily went over the middle.   

In the 70's - he'd have gone toe-to-toe with Mel Blount.   He most certainly wouldn't have always won - but he'd win.  


Hines was incredibly physical and durable, no question. One of the most physical WR's in NFL history. Definitely more physical than Swann (or Stallworth, for that matter).

But Swann was a much more complete wide receiver. Better hands, better route-running, better in the clutch, better over the middle, better deep, better in tight coverage, more acrobatic, faster (although only slightly... Swann wasn't a burner). And a record-setting punt returner to boot. He was also a damn good blocker, although not at the incredible level of Ward. 

Not sure what Mel Blount has to do with any of this, but I agree, Ward vs Blount would've been an entertaining match-up. I'd pay to see that!


(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Pro bowls?  In his career, Swann went to the Pro Bowl 3 times.  Only once as a first teamer.   Ward went to four.

In his statistical best year, Swann had 61 rec for 880 yards (never went over 1000 yards - this was his highest) with 11 TDs
--- he was the 8th best receiver in the NFL that year
- 6 receivers had more yards , four (Jefferson, Carmichael, Largent, and Walker) went over 1,000 yards.
- 6 players (three receivers) had more receptions

In his statistical best year, Ward had 112 rec for 1329 yards with 12 TDs
--- he was the 2nd best receiver in the NFL that year - behind only Marvin Harrison's NFL record setting 143 catch year
- Ward had the highest catch % of any receiver with over 50 receptions (42 wide receivers) 
- 3 receivers had more yards , four (Toomer, Moss, and Harrison) went over 1,000 yards.
- Only Harrison had more receptions

Each has a Super Bowl MVP trophy.

Swann was a 1st-team All Pro, something Ward never achieved. And Swann made the Pro Bowl in 3 of his first 4 years as a starter... on a RIDICULOUSLY run-focused team... and he would've made it 4 out of 4 if not for the concussion in '76, despite the fact that the Steelers went much of the season with a rookie QB and let the air out of the ball. And even in '76, he was lighting it up again by the end of the season. 

Swann was also the top vote-getter for the NFL's All-70s team (designated at the end of the decade by the Pro Football Hall of Fame), behind only OJ Simpson. 

As was the case in 1975, Swann was also the BEST receiver in the NFL in '78. He didn't have the best stats, but he was the most feared, the most talented and the absolute class of the league. He set the standard. Are you making the argument that Reggie Rucker was somehow better than Lynn Swann because he had more yards in 1978? Laugh Stats do not even begin to tell the story with Lynn. 

And if you go back and look, you'll find Ward made a couple of those Pro Bowls as an alternate because players chosen above him bowed out. 

If we're going to compare stats, then here's one I find more meaningful than perhaps any other: Swann scored 1 TD for every 6 passes he caught in his career Scared which is nearly twice as good as Ward (1 TD for every 11 passes). Not to mention, Swann's avg. per catch was 16.2 in the regular season and 18.9 in the post season; Ward's averages were a pedestrian 12.1 and 13.4, respectively. 

All that said, stats between the '70s and '00s are impossible to compare apples to apples. It's apples to watermelons. It's really not possible. 

Hell, on paper, Swann's stats aren't even particularly impressive for the '70s. You can't capture his intangibles -- which are what truly set him apart -- on a stat sheet. But there's a reason he was Jerry Rice's hero. There's a reason Swann defined the position for an entire generation. There's a reason that, 38 years after his retirement, people still refer to acrobatic catches as "Swann-like." Ward is mostly remembered for his $#!t-eating grin (man, I miss that!) and his jaw-breaking blocks. 

Not trying to knock Ward, obviously... but IMO, he's just not in same class as Swann talent-wise. Again, a major factor in Ward's greatness was his longevity and physicality. But you'll never convince me he was an elite pass catcher at the level of Lynn Swann. Or John Stallworth.

And that's Ward's challenge for the Hall. He has solid numbers for the era. Pretty outstanding, really. And Ward has some great intangibles, too. The amazing blocking, great special teams play... stats can't convey those things. 

BTW, Ward does have a Super Bowl MVP. And he deserved it. But Swann played better than Ward in all three Super Bowls he started, despite only earning one MVP. 

I'm going to stop now, because I don't like making a case against Ward for the Hall of Fame. I think he's deserving, and I hope he makes it. I just don't think he's quite in the same class as Swann and Stallworth.

(01-11-2020, 10:28 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote: In the 70's team?  Swann would start - but the minute Tatum put his ass on the bench, Ward would crack-back him and start the rest of the season.

More Raiders mythology. Eyes Tatum never put Swann on the bench. Never.

It was a hypothetical :-)

It's a fun discussion - the tendency is to promote one player at the expense of another - which I can't do with either.

Ultimately, the HoF is a popularity contest voted upon by those with semi-questionable credentials - the vast majority of whom have never played the game - so blech.
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mcmillenandwife
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01-11-2020, 04:03 PM

(01-11-2020, 03:41 PM)RaynorShyne Wrote: It's a fun discussion - the tendency is to promote one player at the expense of another - which I can't do with either.

Ultimately, the HoF is a popularity contest voted upon by those with semi-questionable credentials - the vast majority of whom have never played the game - so blech.


Truth, on both points. Thumbsup
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Jbsptfn
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#17
01-11-2020, 05:39 PM

McMillen, I agree with you on Swann. And, I am going to say something controversial: Swann was better than Jerry Rice (so were several other guys, like Stallworth and Paul Warfield). There, I said it.

The NFL and certain announcers (Pat Haden, I'm looking at you) spread the "Jerry Rice is GOAT player" propaganda in the 90's. However, it is BS:

https://web.archive.org/web/199911110600...html#jerry

As you said, McMillen, Swann ran tough routes across the middle knowing he was going to take a hit. Rice ran slant patterns against zone coverages where the closest player to him was a linebacker. He also benefited from pick plays quite often.

You put Swann, Warfield, etc.. in those passing offenses, and they could match or surpass what Rice did. That's why this "Rice is the best ever" crap is a fallacy.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2020, 05:40 PM by Jbsptfn.)
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#18
01-25-2020, 05:04 PM

Tim, Swann::Sayers, great analogy. ...and RaynorShyne, right, Lloyd, for a five year stretch, was crazy, crazy, crazy dominating. BTW, Nevers and Duke Slater both belong. Nevers could do it all and Slater gave him the time and room to do it. Unfortunately the rest of the Cards sucked as bad as they have for over 100 years (they predate the NFL). The oldest professional franchise in history is also the worst!

Now to it: Are we comparing Ward to Swann and Stallworth 'cause some guy is sitting in the park drinking coffee and he made himself a sign? Hurrumph!

They're all great, Ward will be in the Hall someday, he contributed to 2 SB victories, Swann and Stallworth, four. The Steelers won the last 2 ('78 & '79) with the best passing game in the league, the best because they didn't puss out in the playoffs, as the Chargers, and everyone else did. Sucks to be a Chargers fan, to this day. This century's Steelers SB winners can't claim any air superiority, it just wasn't their game.

People seem to underestimate the 4 Super Bowls in 6 years, champions of all professional football. NO other team accomplished such a feat. The Packers were NFL Champions 5 times in 7 years, but only champions of all professional football the last two. Not they're rules, but it doesn't matter, it is what it is. The Packers also had more turnover in roster, one reason when people think of that team, Lombardi comes first to mind first. Their 5th title did not have their HOF backfield, more credit to Lombardi. I think there are 11 Packers from the sixties in the HOF, give or take.

The Steelers team stayed fairly intact, notable exceptions; Russell, Cunningham, Thornton, Pinney, and Ron Johnson. Only Russell can be thought of in HOF terms. 22 players (J. T. included) have 4 rings. You can't elect the whole core, unfortunately, but what a great core, the greatest. Will 11 Steelers be enough to represent that superiority? Can't say.

It's a team game, loading up individual stats is nice, but not a Steeler thing, winning is. All-time single season leaders for the Steelers never produced championships, Barry Foster, loonytoon AB, even Ben's best years didn't win any titles. The closest any one came was Bradshaw's '78 & '79 seasons. Steeler bests until Ben topped them in non-championship seasons. For S&S, 4 Super Bowl rings is a great individual stat! (Take that George Atkinson)
IMO, Hines was not the best receiver in the game in his time, but I think he may have been the most badass!!

Bradshaw didn't do it alone, Swann and Stallworth were making HOF catches and HOF runs in regular season games. Then, when the playoffs started they elevated their game, as champions do, their stats bear that out. S&S dominated secondaries in three Super Bowls. I suppose some Spy-gate receivers can make that claim and maybe, I see a guy named Rice at the top of most SB receiving stats. He must have had a good game or two.

To Jbsptfn:
...on a different note, if Jerry Rice is not the single definitive greatest receiver in NFL history, who is? If you say he isn't, then you must have THE ONE guy in mind that is. Who is he?

I read that article, it seemed devoid of logic. The reason Jerry Rice scored so many touchdowns is because no one could stop him. If any other team had a player that could catch 197 TD's, they'd throw to him enough to let him. But no one did, except the Packers. Only Don Hutson, compares; 99TD's/116 games. Actually Rice's numbers pale in comparison. Hutson's numbers are insane. Different era, different rules.

...and quit comparing Gradishar to Lambert, it makes my head hurt, however...
I've read several articles that Gradishar isn't making it to the Hall, because of the ridiculously inflated tackle statistics given to him by the Bronco organization. If true, too bad, they shot him the foot, and he didn't deserve it. That's no reason to not elect him in.

I'm not sure if the HOF is a popularity contest or not, Duke Slater hasn't been popular for 80 years and I had never heard of the meanest guy in professional football till now, Ed Sprinkle. I'm guessing with that name on the gridiron it didn't hurt to intimidate, everybody.
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Jbsptfn
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#19
01-27-2020, 01:43 PM

Quote:To Jbsptfn:
...on a different note, if Jerry Rice is not the single definitive greatest receiver in NFL history, who is? If you say he isn't, then you must have THE ONE guy in mind that is. Who is he?

I read that article, it seemed devoid of logic. The reason Jerry Rice scored so many touchdowns is because no one could stop him. If any other team had a player that could catch 197 TD's, they'd throw to him enough to let him. But no one did, except the Packers. Only Don Hutson, compares; 99TD's/116 games. Actually Rice's numbers pale in comparison. Hutson's numbers are insane. Different era, different rules.

...and quit comparing Gradishar to Lambert, it makes my head hurt, however...
I've read several articles that Gradishar isn't making it to the Hall, because of the ridiculously inflated tackle statistics given to him by the Bronco organization. If true, too bad, they shot him the foot, and he didn't deserve it. That's no reason to not elect him in.

I'm not sure if the HOF is a popularity contest or not, Duke Slater hasn't been popular for 80 years and I had never heard of the meanest guy in professional football till now, Ed Sprinkle. I'm guessing with that name on the gridiron it didn't hurt to intimidate, everybody.


You can't really say that any one WR is the GOAT because different eras had different rules. For example, guys like Warfield, Swann and Stallworth played some (or all) of their careers before 1978 (in a more physical era). Also, a lot of those WR's didn't build their careers on slant routes and 2-yard TD's in a cheesy gimmick offense like Rice did.

Defenses didn't evolve in the 80's and 90's, which is why the WCO was successful. At that time, the majority of teams were running the 70's running and downfield throwing-type offenses (although, the WCO got more common in the 90's). The typical zones that worked against them didn't work against San Francisco, which is a major reason why Rice had such gaudy numbers.

And, as far as Gradishar and Lambert are concerned, I like both players (Denver and Pittsburgh are my two favorite teams, and I really like the 70's Steelers). However, Gradishar was just as good. All that BS about inflated tackle stats was made up by Paul Zimmerman (otherwise known as Dr. Z). He was an avid Bronco hater for some reason. In The Football Book by SI, he didn't have Steve Atwater as one of the best six safeties on his all-90's team. He also had Tedy Bruschi as one of the best 25 LB's ever, but not Gradishar (Tedy Flukschi can't hold Gradishar's jock. Heck, he couldn't hold Bryan Hinkle's jock).
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Rollers
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#20
01-28-2020, 02:02 PM

my greatest memory of Troy when he pulled off that diving one handed interception against the Eagles. It was the most amazing interception I have ever seen
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RaynorShyne
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#21
01-31-2020, 10:19 AM

(01-04-2020, 12:11 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Troy will get in, for sure. 

Hopefully, Donnie Shell will join him!

Faneca is probably worthy as well, although I still haven't forgiven him for leaving. I don't really view him as a Steeler anymore.

He who was CUT by the J-E-T-S two years into his 5 year deal?  Immediately AFTER he was voted to the Steelers 75th Anniversary All Time Team by Steeler fans?

If he G-E-T-S in, let him wear loser green.....or a Cardinals logo
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bbbooger
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#22
02-01-2020, 01:26 AM

(01-31-2020, 10:19 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 12:11 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Troy will get in, for sure. 

Hopefully, Donnie Shell will join him!

Faneca is probably worthy as well, although I still haven't forgiven him for leaving. I don't really view him as a Steeler anymore.

He who was CUT by the J-E-T-S two years into his 5 year deal?  Immediately AFTER he was voted to the Steelers 75th Anniversary All Time Team by Steeler fans?

If he G-E-T-S in, let him wear loser green.....or a Cardinals logo

^ This
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mcmillenandwife
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#23
02-01-2020, 02:43 AM

(01-31-2020, 10:19 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote:
(01-04-2020, 12:11 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Troy will get in, for sure. 

Hopefully, Donnie Shell will join him!

Faneca is probably worthy as well, although I still haven't forgiven him for leaving. I don't really view him as a Steeler anymore.

He who was CUT by the J-E-T-S two years into his 5 year deal?  Immediately AFTER he was voted to the Steelers 75th Anniversary All Time Team by Steeler fans?

If he G-E-T-S in, let him wear loser green.....or a Cardinals logo



Dude... you "get" me...  Pi_heartbeating  Laugh
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