black national anthem
sandfan
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#1
07-04-2020, 04:44 AM

Should fans assume the Star Spangled Banner is only for Caucasians?  I'm confused?  Moves like this will go another step in convincing me not to spend another penny on the NFL.  I stopped watching after the kneeling in Chicago.  My heart went out to AV for what he did for our Nation and servicemen and women. 

I began to watch again after this nonsense stopped but with much less interest.  I don't see why this "anthem"is needed and believe it denigrates the sacrifices made by our service personnel.  

http://trk.conservativenews.com/c/6/?T=O...HcOnoX43lA
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Garrett Garlits
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#2
07-04-2020, 05:00 AM

The anthem is needed because the NFL wants to show its support for the African-American players that make up the majority of its workforce. Without a show of support such as this, they most likely faced player unrest and boycotts that would have been a source of embarrassment far greater and more visible that a few older conservative Caucasian fans refusing to watch.

In simpler language, fans like you and the vast majority of those on this board are expendable. They'll go on creating new, younger fans of all colors to replace you. They can't replace unhappy African-American players quite so easily.
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sandfan
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#3
07-04-2020, 06:34 AM

I may be expendable in your world but maybe not in America's. Old conservative Caucasian people like me typically are in a position to enjoy the fruits of our prior labors. Cash in hand and the right to spend it as we see fit. That's freedom pal.

I'm not so sure how many younger people, regardless of color, have the cash to attend an nfl game. Maybe you do? Maybe not? I'm assuming, by the stuff you post, you are pretty young, very liberal, maybe a product of our flawed public education system and might still be trying to find your way in our competitive society. I've seen many of you cross my path looking for a job, guidance or just an excuse to say you tried when you are back with your parents or peers. None, by the way were hired and few, I imagine, gained anything from the experience since they started with pre conceived views.

I find it offensive that you consider me expendable or on the wrong side of history but everyone is free to express an opinion. Men and women have fought, bled and died for that right. I think you are more foolish than you realize or maybe that means you are one of the younger people of color with major bucks in hand. If so, good for you. Flaunt your success and buy season tickets. If not maybe you should couch your terms a bit and stop denigrating folks via your PC.

By the way the owners demonstrate their support for the players via the inflated compensation packages they provide. That's much more meaningful than some false anthem played before a game. One puts a man or family in a position to succeed. The other is more or less a feel good notion that can't be taken to the bank.
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mcmillenandwife
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#4
07-04-2020, 07:19 AM

(07-04-2020, 05:00 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: The anthem is needed because the NFL wants to show its support for the African-American players that make up the majority of its workforce. 

That's funny... I thought the NFL showed support to players via their multi-million dollar salaries, access to endorsement deals, Group Insurance Plan, Severance, Health Reimbursement Account, Player Annuity Program, Second Career Savings Plan “401[k]”, the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle NFL Player Retirement Plan and Plan 88?


(07-04-2020, 05:00 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: In simpler language, fans like you and the vast majority of those on this board are expendable. They'll go on creating new, younger fans of all colors to replace you. They can't replace unhappy African-American players quite so easily.

Expendable? Nice. 

Garrett, the way you treat other people is embarrassing. Typical of the "woke" culture... nasty and demeaning while at the same time, self-righteous.
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Garrett Garlits
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#5
07-04-2020, 08:37 AM

Players want more than financial compensation for their play, Tim. They want their teams to respect them as human beings off the field, and allowing them to express their political and social beliefs regardless of the backlash they may receive from certain members of their communities is one way to do that.

That's what I meant by fans like you and Sandfan being expendable; the teams know that you may stop spending money on merchandise, buying tickets, watching games, or operating websites like this one. But they'll take that risk in order to make sure that the players and other personnel are comfortable working for them. They may take a slight financial hit, but they don't believe that it'll be enough to change the way they do business, especially since there seem to be fewer of you than there were in 2017 when Colin Kaepernick first knelt.

Back then, there was a real debate over what was right and wrong; now, thanks mostly to George Floyd, there isn't. This society is going to be "woke" come hell or high water, and the NFL wants to be a big part of it. There isn't going to be a lot of patience for those who disagree, even in a society with freedom of speech and expression. You may have the right to express your opinion, but that won't mean that your opinion will be considered "right" (in other words, socially acceptable). The pace of change is only going to accelerate should Biden beat Trump in November.

For the record, I'm a white male in my mid-forties. I have no direct dog in any of the numerous cultural fights that have sprung up lately, but I think that this country needs to be a whole lot different than it is now in order to be truly great. A sharp turn to the left politically that mirrors the current social justice trend would be a good first step, especially if Biden picks an African-American, female running mate for the upcoming Presidential race.
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2020, 04:42 PM by Garrett Garlits.)
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sandfan
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#6
07-04-2020, 10:21 PM

We have a son. 32 years old. Raised him to be able to compete in a capitalist system. He's not woke and never will be however he's signed the front of a paycheck. In my view, and maybe many others, that's part of what makes America great. Not being PC or woke or whatever moniker lefties come up with next.

He's European Caucasian. That's a bit of a taunt pal. Don't read more into it. Thought I'd throw that out since I find the term African American offensive and racist. We are all Americans or not. Nothing more or less. I've never understood the need to separate Americans into boxes. That's a democrat socialist play. Geared to failure. Not one that will help America or Americans succeed.

I also don't understand how the woke culture can make a hero out of fellow who committed multiple felonies. Sure he suffered at the hands of a policeman but the rule of law can and will address that crime. As it tried to address Floyd's felonies. That's how America is designed to work and work it does. Maybe not perfectly but legally. Most feel that route is preferable to mob rule and anarchy.

Since you are so woke how do you feel about the democrat party? After all democrats controlled the South prior to and directly after the civil war. They were the party of slavery. Founded, for the most part, the KKK. I bet you have cast every vote for a democrat candidate. Think about what that party has done over your lifetime as they took control of most or the major cities in America. In my view their policies and platforms are simply expansions of the plantations of the old South. But you are woke, liberal and somehow likely to give them your full support.

Players on my old teams earned respect. Peer pressure was a major factor in our successes. I did everything possible to exclude men and women who were so woke they could not fit into our culture. Players in the nfl can earn respect in society if they opt to obey our laws and customs/morals. A man is more than touchdowns or tackles. While I feel most players are in line with society those that are not receive an undue amount of attention. When they stray they sometimes, sadly I believe, become heroes or examples of what should be acceptable.

You seem to think that picking a candidate based on race or gender is a ticket to a winning solution. I know, after several decades of forming successful teams, that you are wrong. Talent makes the difference. There's no racism in talent. Talent has no gender. It just is and you have it or you don't.

Maybe, as you mature, you will find a way to understand my point. I helped get my boy to grasp it before he went off to school so he could counter the socialist liberal nonsense spewed by most of the faculty.

I had 4 season tickets for over a decade and a half. Went to several handfuls of away games and three super bowls. I'm done contributing and have been for some time. I am expendable in your view but became so via my option. However, if I was running a team or league, I'd be courting people like me rather than driving them away. A customer with cash and desire to spend it is king.

America has been a center right Nation. If it makes a sharp turn to the left we will see what obama did on steroids. I tried to get my spouse to leave before his first election. And the second. She refused for family reasons. She's ready to go this time around should democrat socialists regain control. I've begun to redo the research and will be prepared. I imagine our son will take his cash and join us. My only regret is all our assets are in dollars and those will be degraded through democrat policies. It won't matter to woke folks like you. Unless, of course, many more builders of business and our economy also go.

I'm off to play a round at the club with 30 or so of my non woke friends. Their children have lives similar to our boy. Which makes them, I guess, also non woke. I think I'll share a moment telling them just how expendable they are. Should be a hoot.
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Garrett Garlits
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#7
07-05-2020, 09:38 AM

I hope your son's more tolerant of liberal political views than you seem to be. There's no way in the world he would have been able to operate a business if he isn't. Also, I hate to break it to you, but your son probably assimilated a lot more "liberal socialist nonsense" from the educational system then you ever dreamed possible. Colleges in particular allow healthy debate up to a point, but in the end, those who get degrees are the ones who most efficiently reflect the professor's teachings, whatever they may be,

When this country was founded, there was no such thing as an American. Those "boxes" you talk so blithely about were ways for immigrants to maintain a bit of their homeland in a new country and take pride in themselves and those who looked and talked like them. Plenty of people I've known and read about identify as Irish-American or Italian-American or whatever you may say. Art and Dan Rooney, to name two, always identified as Irish-American, and it's their family's successful football team that this website is built upon. Surely you're not ignorant enough to call them racists or say that they used labels to offend people.

As for George Floyd, whatever crimes he may have committed became irrelevant the minute that scumbag cop knelt on his neck. At that moment, he became a pure victim and the subhumans who called themselves police became the felons. That goes for every case of murder by a cop that we've seen in the last few months. THEY'RE the problem, along with those who support them. Abolishing police in this country is a step too far, but we sure as hell need people who see law enforcement less as undeclared war and more as community service.

As for leaving the country if Biden wins, you're certainly free to do that, if you can find a country that lets Americans in theses days. Assuming you can, I'd be interested to see if you can find a country that both tolerates capitalism and is as socially conservative as you prefer. Good luck in trying to find one, but more than likely you'll be doing what other conservatives will be doing in the event of a Biden victory in November: learning to live with it and a lot more Democratic victories to come. (By the way, I don't especially care who Biden picks as his running mate, but the conventional wisdom says that he'll be best served picking an African-American female. Don't worry, there are plenty of talented ones out there.)




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(This post was last modified: 07-05-2020, 11:18 AM by Garrett Garlits.)
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sandfan
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#8
07-05-2020, 11:28 AM

Once again you opened your pie hole without a shred of evidence to back up what you spew. Pretty typical for a liberal democrat socialist.

My son resisted the nonsense the profs offered because he has the common sense God and I helped him gain. He is not woke and likely never will be woke. The boy has the guts and drive to succeed. He will buy another business when an attractive deal can be identified. He's growing into the man I hoped he would be. Since he's also in SC I often have the chance to test him and he test me. I hope your parents are able to say the same thing about you.

You suggested his business failed because of the woke issue. You could not be more wrong. He bought his business 3 years ago, grew the revenue stream by about 33%, sold it in January for a tidy profit (almost 70% return on capital employed) all while signing the front of a paycheck and making enough cash to buy his first home. In this case I agree, the apple has not fallen far from the tree. If you think this is failing I guess you listened much too closely to whatever liberal woke
role model who tried to educate you.

Dan lived about a quarter mile away from me in Mt Lebanon. I knew the man. There was no need to call him a racist or for him to suggest I was one. Maybe you knew the Rooney family well and can therefore suggest I'm off base. But, in the off chance you are once again just spewing nonsense, I am comfortable in what I've offered.

If you think the police departments are filled with sub humans I suggest you call antifa or one of your democrat liberal pals when a Floyd comes a calling. Those folks eventually enter into every life. I've had my share of those experiences growing up in McKees Rocks. I value the contributions brought to our society by service personnel. Police, fire, medical, waste management, etc. None I've known are sub humans but I suggest our police brothers and sisters all too often are face to face with some of the ugliest folks that populate the earth. Floyd was much closer to that category than most police personnel.

I've wasted enough time on this exchange. Your mind is fixed. I'm not sure what contribution you have made or are making to society or your family but, judging from your input, I am less than confident it was/is filled with success. If I'm right, perhaps you need to look in a mirror and decide if being woke is the best path for your future. Your clock is ticking pal.
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Jbsptfn
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#9
07-11-2020, 10:54 PM

The truth about conservatives (and Antifa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IG8rWuyl8o
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sandfan
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#10
07-13-2020, 10:44 PM

(07-11-2020, 10:54 PM)Jbsptfn Wrote: The truth about conservatives (and Antifa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IG8rWuyl8o

After watching about 4 minutes of this clip I ran out and bought myself a black outfit, facemask, helmet with face shield, combat boots, some weapons and subscribed to as much marxist literature as possible.  I'm all set now when the action comes to the beach.  Might be a little warm in all my gear but all set none the less.
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Jbsptfn
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#11
07-19-2020, 07:36 AM

(07-13-2020, 10:44 PM)sandfan Wrote:
(07-11-2020, 10:54 PM)Jbsptfn Wrote: The truth about conservatives (and Antifa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IG8rWuyl8o

After watching about 4 minutes of this clip I ran out and bought myself a black outfit, facemask, helmet with face shield, combat boots, some weapons and subscribed to as much marxist literature as possible.  I'm all set now when the action comes to the beach.  Might be a little warm in all my gear but all set none the less.

Wouldn't expect anything less from a conservative. You are professionals at living in fear.
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mcmillenandwife
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#12
07-19-2020, 08:47 AM

(07-19-2020, 07:36 AM)Jbsptfn Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 10:44 PM)sandfan Wrote:
(07-11-2020, 10:54 PM)Jbsptfn Wrote: The truth about conservatives (and Antifa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IG8rWuyl8o

After watching about 4 minutes of this clip I ran out and bought myself a black outfit, facemask, helmet with face shield, combat boots, some weapons and subscribed to as much marxist literature as possible.  I'm all set now when the action comes to the beach.  Might be a little warm in all my gear but all set none the less.

Wouldn't expect anything less from a conservative. You are professionals at living in fear.


Sorry, couldn't get through the video, Jbsptfn. I'm always open to listening to differing ideas... but what he's saying just isn't interesting. Condescending and self-aggrandizing, yes...  but not interesting. 

Maybe if it was in print? 

In any case, I'm not one for monologues unless the person speaking is really on their game. I prefer dialog and debate. It's more personal, more compelling. Less boring.
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sandfan
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#13
07-19-2020, 08:59 AM

Fear of what? A liberal foolish enough to come onto my property to do something stupid or harmful?

I'm pretty sure the fool would enjoy meeting my friends, Mr. Shotgun, 9MM, 380 or AR-15. In case you are a sleepy Joe democrat socialist supporter it really is 15 and not 14. Some old men are addled like Joe. I'm not one of them and I shoot pretty straight.

It's not fear pal. It's called being prepared.
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mcmillenandwife
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#14
07-19-2020, 09:32 AM

This has absolutely nothing to do with politics or race or fear, but... 

I wouldn't shoot someone for coming onto my property, even if they were causing damage. 

But if they were breaking into the house and/or threatening my family? I wouldn't think twice about it. I'd do what it takes to protect my family.
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sandfan
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#15
07-19-2020, 05:55 PM

When does sufficient threat occur and prompt action?

Our gate guards are not armed so that's not a deterrent to a bunch of antifa thugs. When they tear down my mailbox and flag? Maybe not there. But that will get my anger up. When they cross the lawn and throw bricks at my windows. Maybe not really a threat yet because mine are hurricane rated but they don't know that and harm is certainly intended. When they come onto my porch and beat on my door. Now that's serious and that's when action is warranted. I'm not about to wait until one of the fools enters my home. It's likely too late then and my family will be harmed. The door and whomever is next to it will soon be gone. The shotgun will insure that.

Dialogue does not work with antifa anarchists. They feel entitled to beat on police personnel, destroy public and private property, loot, commit arson, etc. I will not hesitate to show that will not work on my land and with my family. If enough of them come they might succeed but the cost to do so will be substantial.

If the first six shotgun blasts are not enough to stop them I am pretty confident the AR and handguns will finish the job. Ammo is scarce but we have enough stockpiled to protect our home and lives. That's preparation, not fear. Many of my neighbors are equally prepared.

America is a stronger Nation due to the second amendment. Jbsptfn and his anitfa pals will learn that lesson. Sadly the hard way. For all involved.
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Rollers
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#16
07-20-2020, 12:50 PM

(07-19-2020, 07:36 AM)Jbsptfn Wrote:
(07-13-2020, 10:44 PM)sandfan Wrote:
(07-11-2020, 10:54 PM)Jbsptfn Wrote: The truth about conservatives (and Antifa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IG8rWuyl8o

After watching about 4 minutes of this clip I ran out and bought myself a black outfit, facemask, helmet with face shield, combat boots, some weapons and subscribed to as much marxist literature as possible.  I'm all set now when the action comes to the beach.  Might be a little warm in all my gear but all set none the less.

Wouldn't expect anything less from a conservative. You are professionals at living in fear.

ah the tolerant left speaks yet again.  I"m a conservative and I'm not afraid of anything.  I've done 3 combat tours and served for 24 years in the army so people like you could make bigoted statements about a whole class of people while screaming against those that do the EXACT same thing.  Like this.  "all liberals are socialists"  See how that works?  Or all liberals are afraid.  Maybe you should check your own bigotry before calling it out in someone else.  But then that's none of my business
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Jbsptfn
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#17
07-27-2020, 03:57 AM

Quote:ah the tolerant left speaks yet again.  I"m a conservative and I'm not afraid of anything.  I've done 3 combat tours and served for 24 years in the army so people like you could make bigoted statements about a whole class of people while screaming against those that do the EXACT same thing.  Like this.  "all liberals are socialists"  See how that works?  Or all liberals are afraid.  Maybe you should check your own bigotry before calling it out in someone else.  But then that's none of my business

I am not a liberal or a conservative. I realized that both sides are screwed, and that it's a waste to participate in either. The government uses those sides to divide the people. One way is the use of biased news sources that are skewed one way (FOX, CNN, etc...). You used to have to show both sides of the story. Then, the wonderful 80's came along, and Ronnie Raygun made it possible to only show one side of the coin. That is a factor that has led to the division of the people.
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Rollers
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#18
07-27-2020, 09:56 AM

(07-27-2020, 03:57 AM)Jbsptfn Wrote:
Quote:ah the tolerant left speaks yet again.  I"m a conservative and I'm not afraid of anything.  I've done 3 combat tours and served for 24 years in the army so people like you could make bigoted statements about a whole class of people while screaming against those that do the EXACT same thing.  Like this.  "all liberals are socialists"  See how that works?  Or all liberals are afraid.  Maybe you should check your own bigotry before calling it out in someone else.  But then that's none of my business

I am not a liberal or a conservative. I realized that both sides are screwed, and that it's a waste to participate in either. The government uses those sides to divide the people. One way is the use of biased news sources that are skewed one way (FOX, CNN, etc...). You used to have to show both sides of the story. Then, the wonderful 80's came along, and Ronnie Raygun made it possible to only show one side of the coin. That is a factor that has led to the division of the people.

well it looks like you bought the divide.  You labeled all conservatives as being afraid.  Again that sounds suspiciously like someone willing to express a bigoted opinion by labeling a whole group of people as being afraid.  I'm not afraid of anything and I don't support either of the two corrupt parties that are fighting for power over us.  So I guess you were wrong about conservatives.  There are no conservatives in our government except for perhaps Rand Paul.  He's the ONLY politician in Washington I have any respect for at all.  So I'm done with this conversation.  Just wanted you to know that not all conservatives are afraid.  But then in your narrow opinion of conservatives I suppose you would disagree
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