The 2020 NFL season promises to be interesting
RaynorShyne
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#1
07-08-2020, 06:05 AM

I remember, back when I was a kid, that it was about playing a game called 'football'.
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Cali-Steeler
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#2
07-08-2020, 09:59 AM

. Its no longer Football... It's a show. > a $hi7-show. And after this year it will be a $hi7 Sandwich. I think back to when I was a kid, it was the Defense that drew me to football.

I loved watching the defense.
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mcmillenandwife
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#3
07-08-2020, 10:22 AM

I truly have no interest in the current NFL right now. None. Even Ben coming back doesn't have me feeling anything. No excitement at all.

DirecTV is cancelled, so I don't even have a way to watch. I'm sure I can stream games if I get desperate, but right now? I give zero fucks. I have never been this disinterested in football. Never. It's only July, so perhaps that will change by September?    

I'm pretty content watching classic games on my own timetable. Who needs the shit show of the current No Fun League? 

I'll enjoy Ohio State instead.  Cool02
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RaynorShyne
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#4
07-08-2020, 12:19 PM

If the NFL, in week 1, plays “Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing” - with all the players joyously standing and singing on the sidelines - then all kneeling for the national anthem - it's going to spiral into a #%!$%! circus. If they continue to embrace a political organization - they're going to lose a good portion of the fan base. It's going to be a jump the shark moment. I would love for some dumb-assed, west coast team to sign Colin Kaepernick. He of the *one* decent season - *seven* years ago - so he can show himself to be the flash-in-the-pan fluke that he was (let's brush off the 11-24 record over the last 3 seasons of his 'career').

I want to enjoy pro football. I want to cheer for the black-n-gold. I want to see Big Ben bring the young receivers and backs along (with the chance for a real tight end) - and the 'first-round-defense' taking a well-potentiated next step....

but I'm not. Thanks to this site - I can rewatch the 70's games through my modern eyes, rather than clinging onto childhood memories.
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dbsfgyd1
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#5
07-08-2020, 12:24 PM

Shoot, there is no way to run a season until there is either a vaccine, or a remedy for the Covid virus. Seriously, one player gets it, and his team is shutdown for at least two weeks and will continue to be shutdown until the team has no new infections for two weeks. It may also be the team that player played the prior week will be quarantined for two weeks as well.

Picture this, a team is in the middle of a drive for the playoffs, and 5 guys contract the virus. Kiss the year good by. Sorry, the only way to play the game safely is if they play in air conditioned space suits.

I wouldn’t bet on a full season of NCAA football either.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#6
07-09-2020, 01:08 AM

I'm with Dave on this one, I don't see any chance of a regular NFL football season as we know it. College football probably not either.

But if somehow it is pulled off I will tape and watch the games at my leisure. I have spent my last penny on the NFL.

If they're not on TV I don't care.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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mcmillenandwife
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#7
07-09-2020, 05:38 AM

(07-08-2020, 12:24 PM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: Shoot, there is no way to run a season until there is either a vaccine, or a remedy for the Covid virus. Seriously, one player gets it, and his  team is shutdown for at least two weeks and will continue to be shutdown until the team has no new infections for two weeks. It may also be the team that player played the prior week  will be quarantined for two weeks as well.

Picture this, a team is in the middle of a drive for the playoffs, and 5 guys contract the virus. Kiss the year good by. Sorry, the only way to play the game safely is if they play in air conditioned space suits.

I wouldn’t bet on a full season of NCAA football either.


There's no scientific reason for COVID to shut down the NFL or College football. If you're 20-35 years old, COVID is actually less deadly than the flu. 

That said, political pressure would be EXTREME to shut things down if a player (or players) on a team tested positive.

Thankfully, the NFL is too strong and principled to bow down to election-year political pressures.

Oh, wait...  Eyes
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Rollers
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#8
07-09-2020, 09:24 AM

(07-08-2020, 10:22 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I truly have no interest in the current NFL right now. None. Even Ben coming back doesn't have me feeling anything. No excitement at all.

DirecTV is cancelled, so I don't even have a way to watch. I'm sure I can stream games if I get desperate, but right now? I give zero fucks. I have never been this disinterested in football. Never. It's only July, so perhaps that will change by September?    

I'm pretty content watching classic games on my own timetable. Who needs the shit show of the current No Fun League? 

I'll enjoy Ohio State instead.  Cool02

OSU??????????????????????  HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!  LOL  Only this could bring me out of hiding :Smile I will now return to the shadows
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mcmillenandwife
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#9
07-09-2020, 11:03 AM

(07-09-2020, 09:24 AM)Rollers Wrote:
(07-08-2020, 10:22 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I'll enjoy Ohio State instead.  Cool02

OSU??????????????????????  HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!  LOL  Only this could bring me out of hiding :Smile I will now return to the shadows

Laugh
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dbsfgyd1
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#10
07-09-2020, 01:04 PM

(07-09-2020, 05:38 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(07-08-2020, 12:24 PM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: Shoot, there is no way to run a season until there is either a vaccine, or a remedy for the Covid virus. Seriously, one player gets it, and his  team is shutdown for at least two weeks and will continue to be shutdown until the team has no new infections for two weeks. It may also be the team that player played the prior week  will be quarantined for two weeks as well.

Picture this, a team is in the middle of a drive for the playoffs, and 5 guys contract the virus. Kiss the year good by. Sorry, the only way to play the game safely is if they play in air conditioned space suits.

I wouldn’t bet on a full season of NCAA football either.


There's no scientific reason for COVID to shut down the NFL or College football. If you're 20-35 years old, COVID is actually less deadly than the flu. 

That said, political pressure would be EXTREME to shut things down if a player (or players) on a team tested positive.

Thankfully, the NFL is too strong and principled to bow down to election-year political pressures.

Oh, wait...  Eyes

Studies are starting to show that if the virus lands and locks in the nose it’s nowhere near as problematic than when it locks in in the lung. When it lands in the nose, the body’s defense team takes over, and creates antibodies, so by the time the virus gets to the lungs, there are enough antibodies to fight off a serious lung infection. When the virus locks  in the lungs, there are no antibodies present and the infection at this point is much more serious, and is known to leave perfectly healthy people with permanent pulmonary deficits.

  Ever see an NFL player sucking wind? They aren’t sucking air through their nose.

Sorry Tim, we are going to have to disagree on this one.

Further, on a personal note to you and the board please continue to be careful. Always mask if you are sharing air with someone else. Better yet, avoid sharing air if at all possible. It’s your best defense.
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mcmillenandwife
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#11
07-09-2020, 05:18 PM

(07-09-2020, 01:04 PM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(07-09-2020, 05:38 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: There's no scientific reason for COVID to shut down the NFL or College football. If you're 20-35 years old, COVID is actually less deadly than the flu. 

That said, political pressure would be EXTREME to shut things down if a player (or players) on a team tested positive.

Thankfully, the NFL is too strong and principled to bow down to election-year political pressures.

Oh, wait...  Eyes

Studies are starting to show that if the virus lands and locks in the nose it’s nowhere near as problematic than when it locks in in the lung. When it lands in the nose, the body’s defense team takes over, and creates antibodies, so by the time the virus gets to the lungs, there are enough antibodies to fight off a serious lung infection. When the virus locks  in the lungs, there are no antibodies present and the infection at this point is much more serious, and is known to leave perfectly healthy people with permanent pulmonary deficits.

  Ever see an NFL player sucking wind? They aren’t sucking air through their nose.

Sorry Tim, we are going to have to disagree on this one.

Further, on a personal note to you and the board please continue to be careful. Always mask if you are sharing air with someone else. Better yet, avoid sharing air if at all possible. It’s your best defense.


I'm definitely careful. I wash my hands and use hand sanitizer consistently. I travel a lot, so I've always done that. I'm not engaging in activities that put me in large, closely-gathered crowds for long periods of time. Not sure where that would even be possible right now, other than protests (which the CDC has miraculously deemed impervious to the virus).

As for "always masking" when sharing air with someone else? Um... no.  Pi_careless

First of all, a typical cloth face mask does nothing. NOTHING. If wearing one makes you feel better, fine. But it's not going to protect you from anything, and handling it then putting it on your face without washing/sterilizing can open other cans of worms.

I'm not going to wear a mask to walk into Lowe's to buy Preen for the flowerbed. Laugh That's ridiculous and unnecessary for multiple reasons. 

Statistically speaking, the chance of contracting COVID by walking by someone at the hardware store is ridiculously small, bordering on impossible. The virus transmits with extended contact (>15 minutes) with an infected person. Walking by someone in the store aisle is not risky behavior, mask or no mask. The virus doesn't spread that way.

People are going to get this thing, but not because they don't wear their mask while buying groceries. Mask or no mask, shutdown or no shutdown, people are going to continue to get it. We've flattened the curve, so it's time to get on with life. Until a vaccine is available, washing your hands and staying out of close quarters with others for extended periods of time is the best defense. A real, properly fitted and sterile N95 mask would offer some protection to the wearer in a closely confined situation (it's a contamination mask, so air coming out isn't filtered and offers no protection to others). I acknowledge that most PPE when properly used, offers "some" protection. But in a high-risk situation, it's far from foolproof. And outside of a high-risk situation, it's not needed. 

I know plenty of folks who have one mask that they use and reuse and wad up in their pocket/purse and hang from the mirror in their car and wear around their sweaty neck like a chinstrap, and they think they're saving the world. It's placebo in most cases -- all cases where cloth, non-pleated masks are concerned -- and it can create a false sense of security. 

If you want to wear a mask, Dave, wear it. But in the overwhelming majority of circumstances, according to the science, it's ineffectual and unnecessary. Window dressing. 

The fixation on masks is baffling to me. The way it polarizes people is remarkable. Quite an interesting phenomenon.

P.S. -- The mortality rate of COVID-19 is so infinitesimally small for people under 30 who aren't already immuncomprimised or have comorbidities. Players who get it (and I suspect a good number will) are at extremely low risk. We're talking probably less than an hundredth of a percent, erring on the high side. Shutting the league down over this is gross overreaction. People in the stands are a different issue. I acknowledge there would be increased risk there. But the players? Nah... they'll be fine.

Ultimately, people have gotta live their lives, man. I know I could get it. I know it could kill me. But the same is true of the flu. Or a car crash. Or a lightning strike. Personally, I'm fine with the risk. Those who aren't fine with it should stay home.  Protect those at high risk (the elderly, those with serious medical conditions, etc.) and let the rest of us be responsible for ourselves while living our lives.
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dbsfgyd1
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#12
07-10-2020, 01:20 AM

(07-09-2020, 05:18 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: I'm definitely careful. I wash my hands and use hand sanitizer consistently. I travel a lot, so I've always done that. I'm not engaging in activities that put me in large, closely-gathered crowds for long periods of time. Not sure where that would even be possible right now, other than protests (which the CDC has miraculously deemed impervious to the virus).

As for "always masking" when sharing air with someone else? Um... no.  Pi_careless

First of all, a typical cloth face mask does nothing. NOTHING. If wearing one makes you feel better, fine. But it's not going to protect you from anything, and handling it then putting it on your face without washing/sterilizing can open other cans of worms.

I'm not going to wear a mask to walk into Lowe's to buy Preen for the flowerbed. Laugh That's ridiculous and unnecessary for multiple reasons. 

Statistically speaking, the chance of contracting COVID by walking by someone at the hardware store is ridiculously small, bordering on impossible. The virus transmits with extended contact (>15 minutes) with an infected person. Walking by someone in the store aisle is not risky behavior, mask or no mask. The virus doesn't spread that way.

People are going to get this thing, but not because they don't wear their mask while buying groceries. Mask or no mask, shutdown or no shutdown, people are going to continue to get it. We've flattened the curve, so it's time to get on with life. Until a vaccine is available, washing your hands and staying out of close quarters with others for extended periods of time is the best defense. A real, properly fitted and sterile N95 mask would offer some protection to the wearer in a closely confined situation (it's a contamination mask, so air coming out isn't filtered and offers no protection to others). I acknowledge that most PPE when properly used, offers "some" protection. But in a high-risk situation, it's far from foolproof. And outside of a high-risk situation, it's not needed. 

I know plenty of folks who have one mask that they use and reuse and wad up in their pocket/purse and hang from the mirror in their car and wear around their sweaty neck like a chinstrap, and they think they're saving the world. It's placebo in most cases -- all cases where cloth, non-pleated masks are concerned -- and it can create a false sense of security. 

If you want to wear a mask, Dave, wear it. But in the overwhelming majority of circumstances, according to the science, it's ineffectual and unnecessary. Window dressing. 

The fixation on masks is baffling to me. The way it polarizes people is remarkable. Quite an interesting phenomenon.

P.S. -- The mortality rate of COVID-19 is so infinitesimally small for people under 30 who aren't already immuncomprimised or have comorbidities. Players who get it (and I suspect a good number will) are at extremely low risk. We're talking probably less than an hundredth of a percent, erring on the high side. Shutting the league down over this is gross overreaction. People in the stands are a different issue. I acknowledge there would be increased risk there. But the players? Nah... they'll be fine.

Ultimately, people have gotta live their lives, man. I know I could get it. I know it could kill me. But the same is true of the flu. Or a car crash. Or a lightning strike. Personally, I'm fine with the risk. Those who aren't fine with it should stay home.  Protect those at high risk (the elderly, those with serious medical conditions, etc.) and let the rest of us be responsible for ourselves while living our lives.

Tim,

You ought to read this thread in Talk Bass .com about what happens to the unmasked. Also, in your spare time, checkout some YouTube postings from a Dr John Campbell. You just may learn a few things.

All I can say is to you is good luck, and I sure  as hell hope I’m not in Lowe’s when you are.
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mcmillenandwife
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#13
07-10-2020, 04:10 AM

(07-10-2020, 01:20 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: All I can say is to you is good luck, and I sure  as hell hope I’m not in Lowe’s when you are.


Wait, what?

If we were in Lowe's together, why would you be concerned at all, Dave?

You'd be safe. 

Because of your mask. Pi_bigsmile
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sandfan
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#14
07-10-2020, 09:20 PM

It appears the risk of dying from this virus is minimal. Recovery rate is something north of 97% based on a quick search. No life is unimportant however shutting down an economy due to this virus is likely doing much more damage than the virus itself. 135K deaths vs tens of millions out of work drives me to that conclusion. I am less than confident that all the death stats are truly covid based. I think there are economic drivers to list them as such within our hospital facilities. There is likely a political position expressed in the numbers as well.

I'm 74, in pretty good health, live in SC at the beach were we are now mandated to wear masks and think it's all pretty stupid. Especially since we had almost no cases, three in my county, until our local reps decided to open up short term housing and the beaches. That brought a flood of tourists from the North. That was helpful for our business community and tax base but with the flood came the virus.

All businesses now post signs that masks are mandatory however I still see quite a number of folks walking into store without one. I don't do much shopping. I spend most of my free hours on the golf course playing with the same 30-40 guys each week. We have minimal outside play since the guest fee is north of $80. The club is doing more than enough to keep the members safe. We have not had a case of covid within the membership.

I find it amusing that we believe the propaganda that a cloth mask can stop a virus. In my view it merely provides a false sense of security. If we use common sense we should quarantine sick people, not healthy ones. Not quarantine them to their deaths like the fool in NY did but do so with the intent of managing the disease while still allowing healthy people to work and businesses to run.

I wear a mask to get into Costco. That's the only store I visit monthly. On occasion I wear one to pick up a quick item or two at our local grocery store. My spouse wears one when she does the regular marketing. Local employees at the club and dining establishments are forced to wear masks and most find it onerous but necessary to keep their jobs. One establishment has servers using face shields which I think is more sensible. For the employee as well as the customer.

My commitment to health entails hand washing after returning home from any excursion. Each time including my face. I don't use any other sanitation device. I don't know why our medical experts don't include the face since that's the entry point for the virus. I believe that's the common sense approach to the issue, use the same approach during flu season, and more effective as a mitigation technique than a cloth mask.
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Cali-Steeler
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#15
07-10-2020, 11:23 PM

            


Quick question, Why haven't any Politicians died from this virus? I mean, - I've read where some celebrity's have: but if its so deadly, Not one big Politicians name on this list?  They also announced the Trump Rally sparked another flair up of Covid-19?  Now wait what??? This Virus can spark up
 at Trump rally's but not major Protester events with thousands of people? Let me guess,  -  they were all social distancing? Ha! 
 This must be a"Smart Virus" Or some sort of a "Smart Bug" ?
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Chucktownsteeler
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#16
07-11-2020, 01:47 AM

I don't believe there will be a season. Just my gut feel.

I do very little shopping but when I do we are mandated to wear a mask. At time I believe this is the biggest crock of you know what to come down the pike in many years but on the other hand we have had 3 workers die at are plants reported from Covid-19. The problem is we can no longer believe much of anything we're told and about 30% of what we see.

I'll leave you with this:

Imagine a disease so deadly and terrible you have to be tested to know if you have it or not.


    Next - Minkah, #39!
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sandfan
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#17
07-13-2020, 06:52 AM

I'm a believer that a lot of this virus propaganda is geared to crash our economy and for government agencies to gain more control over the lives and actions of private citizens.

Here's a doc with what appears to be a common sense approach to the matter. Spend a few minutes and decide if it makes more sense than masks and social distancing

https://youtu.be/eDSDdwN2Xcg
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sandfan
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#18
07-13-2020, 10:40 PM

Per the CDC about 80,000 folks died from the flu in 2018. The economy was not shut down, schools were not closed, masks were not mandated, the liberal media barely blinked, etc! Do you think the response for covid is a bit extreme or just a political ploy by democrat socialists to bring President Trump and America down.
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sandfan
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#19
07-14-2020, 02:22 AM

Attempting to post relevant death numbers from the government. The trend looks very promising but all the media continues to spew are test numbers and cases. Should we expect all lives can and will be saved and democrat socialists will resist opening back up until that is accomplished? If that's their plan, I have to assume the unicorn will replace the ass in their logo.


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik...&disp=safe
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jimmyjam105
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#20
07-14-2020, 03:35 AM

All right so long time lurker here, so forgive me for wanting to add a little to the convo, but the degree of group think I'm seeing here has become frighteningly stale. Now I recognize that I may appear in the minority in this thread, but I suspect I'm not alone in these beliefs... Deep breaths ahead please before reading lol, and I hope to keep the discourse civil. The best way for that typically is to not give any immediate knee jerk reactions. Maybe even type up what you really want to say (the hell with civility), but save it as a draft, then let some time pass to cool off and re-think and re-work your reply until then, that typically works for me...

So if you gents would like to talk propaganda... I say we start here, please give a very brief watch to the link provided... My question to you is: What changed between the message being delivered then, and the message being received now? That is by and large until this past weekend, when the President actually donned (no pun intended) a mask in public. I sensed some general confusion in recent weeks in the discussions here, as to "we don't know what to believe anymore," and honestly after seeing this clip (which I presume is at least one source of news for a number of you), I can completely sympathize with this feeling.. 

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/128...7139742722

Is it not interesting in how prior common sense talk "of course masks work, everyone knows that" had quickly shifted? Almost as swiftly as the political winds blew and the pressure on the message givers grew I suspect too. But suddenly, the message was now bastardized to "there is no basis in science." Thinking critically for a second, could it be... possibly... that this sudden change in message, was in order to neatly fit the current admin's broader narrative/agenda?

This is no attack, but the fact remains that it was painfully clear that they wanted the economy to remain open (or hurriedly re-open), and at almost any cost necessary (incredibly at one point even attempting to normalize talks of sacrificing the elderly for a more prosperous economy/future... I am looking at you Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and those of your ilk). Damned be the science! And might I remind you of "the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself (virus)." I find it completely incredulous that there are rational and free thinking people amongst me, that are suddenly gullible enough to repeat any of this hogwash (let alone believe any of it).

Now, I understand the basis or rationale for falling in line with party talk and viewpoints when it comes to certain issues, but this is NOT a political issue. It is one of medical reason and of the utmost necessity that we take serious, not only at a highly coordinated (governmental) level, but also as a matter of personal accountability and responsibility (isn't that something we still believe in?). Instead what I am sadly hearing and seeing, is failure all around me at both of these levels. And it's become increasingly clear what political philosophy that these folks largely hold, which is truly the saddest part to me.

I'll leave with this bit as some food for thought... Attempt to read this last article with a degree of unbiased-ness... I understand there is a degree of American exceptionalism with some, that they cannot tolerate the thought of some places excelling (or being better than us) at something... But I think there is some merit to this conversation and potentially a thing to learn from the Japanese model, because it is clear they are doing something right. (And furthermore, it's not just covid-19 numbers, but to those of you concerned over the economy, it should be of particular note that the unemployment rate has held much steadier there, at less than 3%)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

You may struggle past the first two ideas given as to why Japan has had a much more successful response (something about "mindo" which can loosely translate to some nonsense concerning cultural superiority), and then the idea of previous exposure to a similar viral agent which enabled a better immune response. But it's the last part that goes into much more detail.

To me it boils down to civic/cultural (or yes even individual) responsibility, wherein there lies a sense of obligation to do as your told (which obviously clashes with our somewhat uniquely held and inherent senses as Americans of "freedom") in order to achieve the greater benefit to all. It's much akin to the "Buy U.S. Bonds" movement to "help do your part" during WWII. Have we gone mad and forgotten this? In this scenario, it's the medical experts and some (of the more responsible) government officials asking that we follow certain guidelines in order to help eliminate community spread. I don't think that any of these asks are too mighty of us, but cultural wars apparently be damned. But the overriding example given here at current, is that the Japanese can traditionally be depended on to heed the advice and warnings of such "experts." And in turn they are further mindful of their own actions, and largely comply with these sorts of decrees (wear a mask, socially distance, stay home, etc etc), to the BENEFIT of us ALL. Whereas Americans, we seemingly have gone off the rails in recent times when it comes to such logic. Because... We.. Simply.. Know.. Better.. Than.. These.. Quote.. Unquote.. Experts.... Or at least someone else on the internet does (which you better believe we have sought out from our stable of "reliable" sources) and has already told us so, reassuring us of such and swiftly confirming our already implicit biases lol... Rinse, Cycle, and Repeat

Personally, I find it a highly commendable (not superior) behavior by the Japanese, and one that in this specific instance we can hopefully begin to learn from and give some credence to. Because as we fall further into the abyss of this unmitigated disaster, I fear the collective acceptance of our pending doom/fate amongst some, and have already heard it... "we're all gonna get it" or "there's nothing we can do" or "once we achieve herd immunity...." I for one am not giving up hope on us, but that may ultimately be dependent upon the right type of leadership stepping forward. Which yes, as you can likely tell by my leanings on this issue, I sadly do not believe that we have at this current state and time.

Well that's my piece. Thanks for indulging me here. Hopefully this garners some more thoughtful conversation and does not elicit any further anger or vitriol. Besides, that's what had brought us all here originally, is our shared and collective fandom. So let's at least reconcile in that, and not go overboard in highlighting our assuredly vast and many other divisions and differences. Here We Go Steelers! Here We Go!

Back to the shadow realm I go.....
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2020, 03:45 AM by jimmyjam105.)
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aqua -park
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#21
07-14-2020, 07:26 AM

nice, thoughtful post jimmyjam105, however I would like make the following points.

When it comes to "sacrificing the elderly", it was the idiot governors of NY, NJ, and PA who knowingly put COVID patients in nursing homes causing tens of thousands of deaths. And don't forget the medical director of PA moved his mother from a nursing home to a hotel prior to that nursing home receiving COVID patients. He knew.
Trump is right, the increase in COVID testing is why there is an increase in COVID cases. For example, if I have 1,000 IQ test I'm sure could go out into the community and find 50 morons. Now I know there are more than 50 morons in my community (especially because I live in Raven's country) but without more tests, I can't confirm it.
COVID Death rates are way down. The way the government counts cases is not accurate. Too much FAKE news.
This fall, I will spend more time watching classic Steelers games from this excellent site rather than support the current NFL. I watched the 1976 Colts/Steelers playoff game this weekend and it was outstanding!

Mike

PS- Can I protest violence against the police by taking a knee during the playing of "Lift Every Voice" at an NFL game or is that racist?
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RaynorShyne
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#22
07-14-2020, 12:04 PM

I hate to say that Daniel Snyder seems to have caught the Covid- and lost his logo
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Jbsptfn
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#23
07-14-2020, 10:21 PM

I wonder if this COVID thing is all going to be forgotten by Christmas time if Biden is selected (I said selected. Presidents aren't elected. Nobody's vote has ever mattered). This may be a ploy to get Trump out. We will see.
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RaynorShyne
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#24
07-15-2020, 02:06 PM

(07-14-2020, 10:21 PM)Jbsptfn Wrote: I wonder if this COVID thing is all going to be forgotten by Christmas time if Biden is selected (I said selected. Presidents aren't elected. Nobody's vote has ever mattered). This may be a ploy to get Trump out. We will see.

What, you mean with about ~100 days to the election,, and the Democrats ensuring the Smokin' Joe is socially distanced away from anything smelling like a microphone - and thousands of protesters and media exclaiming every day the Trump (& anyone who supports him - or isn't actively against him) is a racist.....

.....would be a political ploy geared towards getting someone from Team "D" into the Whitehouse?

(**Shock**)
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dbsfgyd1
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#25
07-17-2020, 12:00 PM

(07-14-2020, 03:35 AM)jimmyjam105 Wrote: All right so long time lurker here, so forgive me for wanting to add a little to the convo, but the degree of group think I'm seeing here has become frighteningly stale. Now I recognize that I may appear in the minority in this thread, but I suspect I'm not alone in these beliefs... Deep breaths ahead please before reading lol, and I hope to keep the discourse civil. The best way for that typically is to not give any immediate knee jerk reactions. Maybe even type up what you really want to say (the hell with civility), but save it as a draft, then let some time pass to cool off and re-think and re-work your reply until then, that typically works for me...

So if you gents would like to talk propaganda... I say we start here, please give a very brief watch to the link provided... My question to you is: What changed between the message being delivered then, and the message being received now? That is by and large until this past weekend, when the President actually donned (no pun intended) a mask in public. I sensed some general confusion in recent weeks in the discussions here, as to "we don't know what to believe anymore," and honestly after seeing this clip (which I presume is at least one source of news for a number of you), I can completely sympathize with this feeling.. 

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/128...7139742722

Is it not interesting in how prior common sense talk "of course masks work, everyone knows that" had quickly shifted? Almost as swiftly as the political winds blew and the pressure on the message givers grew I suspect too. But suddenly, the message was now bastardized to "there is no basis in science." Thinking critically for a second, could it be... possibly... that this sudden change in message, was in order to neatly fit the current admin's broader narrative/agenda?

This is no attack, but the fact remains that it was painfully clear that they wanted the economy to remain open (or hurriedly re-open), and at almost any cost necessary (incredibly at one point even attempting to normalize talks of sacrificing the elderly for a more prosperous economy/future... I am looking at you Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and those of your ilk). Damned be the science! And might I remind you of "the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself (virus)." I find it completely incredulous that there are rational and free thinking people amongst me, that are suddenly gullible enough to repeat any of this hogwash (let alone believe any of it).

Now, I understand the basis or rationale for falling in line with party talk and viewpoints when it comes to certain issues, but this is NOT a political issue. It is one of medical reason and of the utmost necessity that we take serious, not only at a highly coordinated (governmental) level, but also as a matter of personal accountability and responsibility (isn't that something we still believe in?). Instead what I am sadly hearing and seeing, is failure all around me at both of these levels. And it's become increasingly clear what political philosophy that these folks largely hold, which is truly the saddest part to me.

I'll leave with this bit as some food for thought... Attempt to read this last article with a degree of unbiased-ness... I understand there is a degree of American exceptionalism with some, that they cannot tolerate the thought of some places excelling (or being better than us) at something... But I think there is some merit to this conversation and potentially a thing to learn from the Japanese model, because it is clear they are doing something right. (And furthermore, it's not just covid-19 numbers, but to those of you concerned over the economy, it should be of particular note that the unemployment rate has held much steadier there, at less than 3%)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

You may struggle past the first two ideas given as to why Japan has had a much more successful response (something about "mindo" which can loosely translate to some nonsense concerning cultural superiority), and then the idea of previous exposure to a similar viral agent which enabled a better immune response. But it's the last part that goes into much more detail.

To me it boils down to civic/cultural (or yes even individual) responsibility, wherein there lies a sense of obligation to do as your told (which obviously clashes with our somewhat uniquely held and inherent senses as Americans of "freedom") in order to achieve the greater benefit to all. It's much akin to the "Buy U.S. Bonds" movement to "help do your part" during WWII. Have we gone mad and forgotten this? In this scenario, it's the medical experts and some (of the more responsible) government officials asking that we follow certain guidelines in order to help eliminate community spread. I don't think that any of these asks are too mighty of us, but cultural wars apparently be damned. But the overriding example given here at current, is that the Japanese can traditionally be depended on to heed the advice and warnings of such "experts." And in turn they are further mindful of their own actions, and largely comply with these sorts of decrees (wear a mask, socially distance, stay home, etc etc), to the BENEFIT of us ALL. Whereas Americans, we seemingly have gone off the rails in recent times when it comes to such logic. Because... We.. Simply.. Know.. Better.. Than.. These.. Quote.. Unquote.. Experts.... Or at least someone else on the internet does (which you better believe we have sought out from our stable of "reliable" sources) and has already told us so, reassuring us of such and swiftly confirming our already implicit biases lol... Rinse, Cycle, and Repeat

Personally, I find it a highly commendable (not superior) behavior by the Japanese, and one that in this specific instance we can hopefully begin to learn from and give some credence to. Because as we fall further into the abyss of this unmitigated disaster, I fear the collective acceptance of our pending doom/fate amongst some, and have already heard it... "we're all gonna get it" or "there's nothing we can do" or "once we achieve herd immunity...." I for one am not giving up hope on us, but that may ultimately be dependent upon the right type of leadership stepping forward. Which yes, as you can likely tell by my leanings on this issue, I sadly do not believe that we have at this current state and time.

Well that's my piece. Thanks for indulging me here. Hopefully this garners some more thoughtful conversation and does not elicit any further anger or vitriol. Besides, that's what had brought us all here originally, is our shared and collective fandom. So let's at least reconcile in that, and not go overboard in highlighting our assuredly vast and many other divisions and differences. Here We Go Steelers! Here We Go!

Back to the shadow realm I go.....

I was in Japan back in 2015, my daughter in-law is Japanese. There is much to like about the Japanese culture, many things that should be adopted. We were there at the start of the flu season. I saw more masks there the two weeks we were there, than I’ve seen to date with this virus. It is not a sign of capitulation, it didn’t happen because of some government edict, it’s happened because of a deep seated respect for others well being. 

If there is just one thing we can take from Japanese culture, the respect for the well being of others, would make living here a whole lot better.
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dbsfgyd1
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#26
07-18-2020, 05:00 AM

(07-10-2020, 04:10 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(07-10-2020, 01:20 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: All I can say is to you is good luck, and I sure  as hell hope I’m not in Lowe’s when you are.


Wait, what?

If we were in Lowe's together, why would you be concerned at all, Dave?

You'd be safe. 

Because of your mask. Pi_bigsmile

I hate to see a good pal of mine doing himself in, or worse yet, doing somebody else in. LOL.

Saw an interesting article on Steeler Depot today. 72 NFL players so far have contracted the virus so far, the testing  for all of the players has not been completed. Keep in mind, to this point there has been no team meetings, no scrimmages, or players even been in close proximity to another player. So much for healthy athletes being immune. 

When these guys are banging on each other deeply breathing each other’s air, this is going to be a problem. From what I’ve read on this subject, studies are showing there is a big difference in the effect of the virus if the initial infection starts in the nasal cavities, which is relatively a normal type flu experience. This is a much more serious infection if it starts out in the lungs. 

When the infection starts in the lungs there are very few antibodies in the system to fight it off. By the time a bodies natural defense system kicks in, your overall health at this point is now starving from oxygen deprivation. Frighteningly, it is not a long drawn out process to to get to this point. We are talking 48 hours, and it doesn’t matter much if you are 18-28 or 108. It’s a quick trip to the pine box.

Studies have shown that primarily, this is an airborne illness caused by the inhalation of the virus attached to moisture expelled from somebody else. I will be the first to agree masks are not a 100% solution to the spread of this  virus. What it does do is significantly reduces the odds of transmission when in a shared air environment. 

As you well know, your oil filter does not trap all the abrasives in your motor oil. The reason we use oil filters is we know by removing most particles, odds are the engine will last longer. The only way to stop 100% of the particles would be a plug. I’m fairly certain this will not work well for your car, much like a plug on a human to 100% prevent infection. I think we can all agree like the car, some protection is better than no protection.

As for the NFL,  the amount of players already  infected, the likelihood of sharing significant amounts air without social distancing, knowing  how the virus spreads,  knowing more than likely some of these guys are going to be playing viral,  it is an extremely optimistic point of view thinking this season is going to happen without  impact from Covid. 

Folks, a virus is apolitical. It doesn’t care. This virus is serious enough on it’s own, and doesn’t need to be aided by political discord, denial, and noncompliance with suggested preventative measures.

Doubters out there?? I made a reference to a Dr. John Campbell. He has a numbers of statistical studies on this pandemic available on YouTube. He is from England, and not affiliated with any government, government agency, or health organization (Like the WHO) Or any other entity with a dog in this fight.  You will find zero politics, zero hype, just the stats, and medical/biological insights that as physician, he can break it down so an average person can understand.

I urge you to watch several of his presentations.
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dbsfgyd1
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#27
07-19-2020, 02:45 AM

Further,

Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing.
Face masks are emerging as one of the most powerful weapons to fight the novel coronavirus, with growing evidence that facial coverings help prevent transmission—even if an infected wearer is in close contact with others.

Read in The Wall Street Journal: https://apple.news/AQTKvFSlNRwKmW9qOISq7oA


Shared from Apple News


Sent from my iPad
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mcmillenandwife
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#28
07-19-2020, 08:33 AM

Dave, I have nothing against wearing masks in a way that works. I also have nothing against those who choose to wear a mask. But articles making blanket claims that "face masks contain the virus" are simply bogus. That's propaganda, not science. 

Because not all face masks are created equal. 

Here's the best-available science: Cloth face masks don't do a damn thing... except perhaps create a false sense of security. And maybe spread germs in unintended ways if not washed daily, handled properly, stored properly, etc. And maybe virtue signal.  Eyes

I'll say it again: Cloth masks do nothing. If you want to debate it, please provide scientific PROOF, not links to nonsense articles with an agenda. 

This virus is f-ing SERIOUS. Making claims that cloth masks offer protection when they don't is incredibly irresponsible. 

Surgical masks, if used properly, can help a bit. There's still plenty of margin for error, as moisture can still penetrate the mask, and air can absolutely escape (and get in) around the edges of the mask.

Surgical masks also need to be changed multiple times an hour to remain effective. They can't be reused, and once they become damp from breathing, they are a liability, not an asset. 

Access to a constant supply of surgical masks isn't always possible. Frankly, we'd be better served to conserve them for medical workers and patients IMO.

N95 masks are the most effective. Here again, supply is short, so I'm not sure having the general public buy them up is the responsible thing to do. In fact, the shortage of masks led the CDC and WHO to tell us wearing masks was HARMFUL in the early days of this thing. Were they lying then? Or are they lying now? Either way, they lied, so how can we possibly trust them?

BTW, N95 masks are only effective if used properly, fit properly and changed regularly, daily at a minimum. They also only protect the wearer. Air going in is filtered, air going out is not. So all this, "Do it for the other person" talk is nonsense IMO.  

Synopsis: 
  • N95 masks help significantly protect the wearer only (not others) when used properly. Most people don't have access to these.
  • Surgical masks help a little if used properly (which most people can't or won't do).
  • Cloth masks are utterly worthless... and this is what most people are wearing.
Please prove me wrong, and I'll change my behavior. Since I don't have an N95 mask, I'm not wearing masks. My wife was able to get a small number of surgical masks for times when we absolutely have to wear them (i.e., to get into a store). 

We both also purchased cloth masks early on before we really understood how useless they are. Mine is black with yellow cross weave. Steeler colors. I wore it once. All it did was fog up my glasses. And if it's steaming up my glasses, well... 

People running around in cloth masks thinking they're fighting COVID-19 are like people driving around in their Prius thinking they're making a discernible impact in global CO2 emissions. It's nonsense, and the science says so.
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mcmillenandwife
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#29
07-19-2020, 09:11 AM

(07-14-2020, 03:35 AM)jimmyjam105 Wrote: Is it not interesting in how prior common sense talk "of course masks work, everyone knows that" had quickly shifted? 

Jimmy, the mask paradigm shifted because people became more interested and informed. It wasn't necessary to know much about masks before. Now it is.

I have nothing against masks in general. If people want to wear them, that's fine. I can respect that. But the reality is, only certain masks actually work. Cloth masks are not proven to be effective. So far, the evidence shows they're placebo. If the data changes, I'll change my behavior accordingly. Until then, I'm not going to wear a "make believe" mask.

N95 masks do offer significant protection to the wearer, fitted and worn properly. But they're in short supply, so I prefer to leave them for medical professionals who truly need them.

The largely political divide on this issue is interesting and unexpected. I'm not sure how to explain it?
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Rollers
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#30
07-20-2020, 12:04 AM

I wore a mask and still got covid. I was sick for about a week and a half with what felt like a mild flu or cold. I'm 65 so I'm in the danger zone. I now have anti bodies for the disease. I did everything that the mask shamers claimed I should do and STILL got the disease. Screw the masks. This will NOT stop until the disease runs it's course and enough people get it and get the anti bodies to stop it. Until then nothing we do will stop it. Nothing. Unless you force at the point of a gun to keep people in their houses forever. Screw that. They have changed their views on masks over and over until you can't believe anything they say. I'm not going to bother looking up online any arguments for one side or the other. I wore a mask, practiced handwashing to the Nth degree and I STILL got the disease. So there you have my experience.
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