The 2020 NFL season promises to be interesting
dbsfgyd1
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#31
07-20-2020, 04:17 AM

(07-19-2020, 08:33 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Dave, I have nothing against wearing masks in a way that works. I also have nothing against those who choose to wear a mask. But articles making blanket claims that "face masks contain the virus" are simply bogus. That's propaganda, not science. 

Because not all face masks are created equal. 

Here's the best-available science: Cloth face masks don't do a damn thing... except perhaps create a false sense of security. And maybe spread germs in unintended ways if not washed daily, handled properly, stored properly, etc. And maybe virtue signal.  Eyes

I'll say it again: Cloth masks do nothing. If you want to debate it, please provide scientific PROOF, not links to nonsense articles with an agenda. 

This virus is f-ing SERIOUS. Making claims that cloth masks offer protection when they don't is incredibly irresponsible. 

Surgical masks, if used properly, can help a bit. There's still plenty of margin for error, as moisture can still penetrate the mask, and air can absolutely escape (and get in) around the edges of the mask.

Surgical masks also need to be changed multiple times an hour to remain effective. They can't be reused, and once they become damp from breathing, they are a liability, not an asset. 

Access to a constant supply of surgical masks isn't always possible. Frankly, we'd be better served to conserve them for medical workers and patients IMO.

N95 masks are the most effective. Here again, supply is short, so I'm not sure having the general public buy them up is the responsible thing to do. In fact, the shortage of masks led the CDC and WHO to tell us wearing masks was HARMFUL in the early days of this thing. Were they lying then? Or are they lying now? Either way, they lied, so how can we possibly trust them?

BTW, N95 masks are only effective if used properly, fit properly and changed regularly, daily at a minimum. They also only protect the wearer. Air going in is filtered, air going out is not. So all this, "Do it for the other person" talk is nonsense IMO.  

Synopsis: 
  • N95 masks help significantly protect the wearer only (not others) when used properly. Most people don't have access to these.
  • Surgical masks help a little if used properly (which most people can't or won't do).
  • Cloth masks are utterly worthless... and this is what most people are wearing.
Please prove me wrong, and I'll change my behavior. Since I don't have an N95 mask, I'm not wearing masks. My wife was able to get a small number of surgical masks for times when we absolutely have to wear them (i.e., to get into a store). 

We both also purchased cloth masks early on before we really understood how useless they are. Mine is black with yellow cross weave. Steeler colors. I wore it once. All it did was fog up my glasses. And if it's steaming up my glasses, well... 

People running around in cloth masks thinking they're fighting COVID-19 are like people driving around in their Prius thinking they're making a discernible impact in global CO2 emissions. It's nonsense, and the science says so.

Again, you seem to think that there has to be 100% zero possibility off transmission for masking  to be effective. Tim, you are way to bright.  

If you know anything about statistics, the law of large  numbers, and actuarial morbidity, it is granted that masking will not prevent 100% of transmission of Covid, regardless of the quality of filtration. That said, there is significant data that supports masking, regardless of quality or it’s effect on the individual, DOES have a positive effect on the entire population.

Isolation is proven a much better method, which is clearly evident based on infection rates during shut down vs the escalating rates with the population being turned loose. 


 As for where the information is, you are not about to find it of nightly news. I gave you a highly creditable independent source, and I’ll make a wager you didn’t even bother to watch 1 of his videos. I also sent you a link from a flipping Wall Street Journal article. I’ll bet you didn’t read it either.

So before you accuse me of not provide proof or an article contrary, which I have
I suggest you do your homework.
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dbsfgyd1
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#32
07-20-2020, 04:57 AM

(07-20-2020, 12:04 AM)Rollers Wrote: I wore a mask and still got covid.  I was sick for about a week and a half with what felt like a mild flu or cold.  I'm 65 so I'm in the danger zone.  I now have anti bodies for the disease.  I did everything that the mask shamers claimed I should do and STILL got the disease.  Screw the masks.  This will NOT stop until the disease runs it's course and enough people get it and get the anti bodies to stop it.  Until then nothing we do will stop it.  Nothing.  Unless you force at the point of a gun to keep people in their houses forever.  Screw that.  They have changed their views on masks over and over until you can't believe anything they say.  I'm not going to bother looking up online any arguments for one side or the other.  I wore a mask, practiced handwashing to the Nth degree and I STILL got the disease.  So there you have my experience.

Glad you recovered. 140,000 (and counting) in this country were not so fortunate.
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mcmillenandwife
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#33
07-20-2020, 06:29 AM

(07-20-2020, 04:17 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: Again, you seem to think that there has to be 100% zero possibility off transmission for masking  to be effective. Tim, you are way to bright.  

If you know anything about statistics, the law of large  numbers, and actuarial morbidity, it is granted that masking will not prevent 100% of transmission of Covid, regardless of the quality of filtration. That said, there is significant data that supports masking, regardless of quality or it’s effect on the individual, DOES have a positive effect on the entire population.

Isolation is proven a much better method, which is clearly evident based on infection rates during shut down vs the escalating rates with the population being turned loose. 


 As for where the information is, you are not about to find it of nightly news. I gave you a highly creditable independent source, and I’ll make a wager you didn’t even bother to watch 1 of his videos. I also sent you a link from a flipping Wall Street Journal article. I’ll bet you didn’t read it either.

So before you accuse me of not provide proof or an article contrary, which I have
I suggest you do your homework.


I'm fully aware of how things work, Dave. N95 is called N95 because it is supposed to block 95% of airborne particles. Meanwhile, cloth masks do nothing to prevent the spread of COVID-19. You may want them to, you may wish they would, but they don't.

Would a cloth mask prevent a big ball of phlegm from being sprayed on someone nearby? Yes. But in terms of mitigating COVID-19, which is spread in the absolute tiniest of aerosol droplets that are too small for a cloth mask can't stop, it does nothing. NOTHING

My expectations are based on facts, Dave. As such, they are realistic.  
 
Another component of this, and this is important, is that the spread of COVID-19 overwhelmingly happens through prolonged contact -- 15 minutes or more -- with an infected person. The chance of spreading it through casual, quick contact (e.g., walking past someone in the aisle at the grocery) is incredibly small. Not impossible... but darn close. 

Since you brought it up, I don't watch the nightly news. Or cable news. I cancelled DirecTV, so nearly everything I get is from reading. I dig for additional info from multiple sources when I need clarity. None of this is of a "drive-by" nature for me. I am well-informed and not easily swayed, but I will change my views quickly when presented with counter-evidence that demonstrates truth.

When this pandemic started, I thought it was insanity the CDC and WHO claimed masks were ineffective against COVID-19. It's like, how can that possibly be? Masks have to help, right? 

And of course, some masks do help. Some help a LOT and some help a little... despite the lies to the contrary by Fauci and others in the early days of this. 

But cloth masks don't help at all. ZERO. And your government knows this. Yet instead of warning people and advising them to get masks that do offer some mitigation, the CDC is actually recommending people wear cloth masks

Why do you think this is? Why do you think the CDC would recommend people take false precautions that will do nothing to protect them?  

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.  

P.S. -- Regarding isolation, yes, that is the best way to avoid infection. But this thing isn't going away, and it's not possible to distance at that level for months on end. People have to live their lives. People without comorbidities have a very low mortality rate and a very high recovery rate. Take measures to protect the most vulnerable, and let the rest of the country get back to living. Government overreaction and overreach is raining down destruction on our lives and livelihoods, and it needs to stop. 
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Rollers
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#34
07-20-2020, 08:48 AM

(07-20-2020, 04:57 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 12:04 AM)Rollers Wrote: I wore a mask and still got covid.  I was sick for about a week and a half with what felt like a mild flu or cold.  I'm 65 so I'm in the danger zone.  I now have anti bodies for the disease.  I did everything that the mask shamers claimed I should do and STILL got the disease.  Screw the masks.  This will NOT stop until the disease runs it's course and enough people get it and get the anti bodies to stop it.  Until then nothing we do will stop it.  Nothing.  Unless you force at the point of a gun to keep people in their houses forever.  Screw that.  They have changed their views on masks over and over until you can't believe anything they say.  I'm not going to bother looking up online any arguments for one side or the other.  I wore a mask, practiced handwashing to the Nth degree and I STILL got the disease.  So there you have my experience.

Glad you recovered. 140,000 (and counting) in this country were not so fortunate.

what does 140,000 deaths have to do with me taking every single precaution that you want everyone to follow and I still got Corona.  How many of those that died wore masks?  I know none of them right?  My point stands.  There are three people in our church that had Corona.  All recovered  all wore masks.  Over 2/3 of the deaths in PA were in nursing homes because our governor and the guy he has as his health secretary forced nursing homes to take in patients with Corona.  Our health secretary got his parent out of a nursing home while others were prevented from doing so.  So how many others died in nursing homes?  Would masks have helped them?  Let me save you the time of looking it up.  It's over 40 percent.  I guess had those folks worn masks every one of them would still be with us.  i'm done with masks.  I've had it and am done with it.  Our leaders failed the most vulnerable among us and instead concentrated forcing the healthy to wear masks and patting themselves on the back making them selves fell like they did a great thing.  Bullshit.  Over 40 percent dave.  think on that.  So yeah I'll be glad i recovered with nothing more than mild symptoms as most do.  SO keep pimping those masks.  Keep allowing people to feel a false sense of security.  I'm done with all of it
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RaynorShyne
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#35
07-20-2020, 12:11 PM

Like I said in my original post: The 2020 NFL season promises to be interesting.
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mcmillenandwife
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#36
07-20-2020, 12:56 PM

(07-20-2020, 12:11 PM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Like I said in my original post: The 2020 NFL season promises to be interesting.

Laugh

I dunno, man. As of now, I have no plans to tune in. I'm not necessarily taking a "stand" here... I probably will end up checking it out if I'm honest with myself. But my interest in the NFL is at an all-time low.
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Cali-Steeler
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#37
07-21-2020, 01:09 AM

(07-20-2020, 12:56 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 12:11 PM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Like I said in my original post: The 2020 NFL season promises to be interesting.

Laugh

I dunno, man. As of now, I have no plans to tune in. I'm not necessarily taking a "stand" here... I probably will end up checking it out if I'm honest with myself. But my interest in the NFL is at an all-time low.


  I could be wrong, but isn't Roger Goon-dell's contract up in 2021 and he said he wont be back?  He'd be bowing out in the middle of this crap 

  and letting the ship sink after making his 44 Mil a year and pissing off a lot of people.

.
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mcmillenandwife
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#38
07-21-2020, 07:47 AM

(07-21-2020, 01:09 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote: I could be wrong, but isn't Roger Goon-dell's contract up in 2021 and he said he wont be back?  He'd be bowing out in the middle of this crap and letting the ship sink after making his 44 Mil a year and pissing off a lot of people.


If true... good riddance.

That said, I don't think that means things will get better. I think the decline is too steep, and the resolve to stop it doesn't exist. On top of the mostly-bad rule changes, the NFL has allowed itself to become a platform for too much off-the-field nonsense in recent years. Charity work, helping with education, soup kitchens, giving back to the community... all good stuff. I assume it's still happening? But the good stuff has taken a major back seat to headline-grabbing, divisive issues that really have nothing to do with the game and just serve to stress people out. 

Sports have always been an escape, a diversion, maybe a chance to dream a little for me. But these days, it's just an extension of the hateful political nonsense going on in the rest of the world. 

Who needs it? I'm content to live in the old days as far as the gridiron is concerned.
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Rollers
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#39
07-21-2020, 11:22 AM

(07-20-2020, 04:57 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 12:04 AM)Rollers Wrote: I wore a mask and still got covid.  I was sick for about a week and a half with what felt like a mild flu or cold.  I'm 65 so I'm in the danger zone.  I now have anti bodies for the disease.  I did everything that the mask shamers claimed I should do and STILL got the disease.  Screw the masks.  This will NOT stop until the disease runs it's course and enough people get it and get the anti bodies to stop it.  Until then nothing we do will stop it.  Nothing.  Unless you force at the point of a gun to keep people in their houses forever.  Screw that.  They have changed their views on masks over and over until you can't believe anything they say.  I'm not going to bother looking up online any arguments for one side or the other.  I wore a mask, practiced handwashing to the Nth degree and I STILL got the disease.  So there you have my experience.

Glad you recovered. 140,000 (and counting) in this country were not so fortunate.

Here are some statistics for you to overlook as well.
After two months of devastating lockdown, doctors at one California clinic say they’ve seen more suicides than Covid-19 deaths – and they’re not alone. But warning signs were there since day one. Why have they been ignored?
“We’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks,” Dr Mike deBoisblanc, lead trauma surgeon at the John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told local media on Thursday, confirming the center had seen more deaths from suicide over the two-month lockdown period than deaths from coronavirus.
Not only are the numbers of attempts “unprecedented” but so is their seriousness, according to a trauma nurse at the clinic. “I have never seen so much intentional injury,” nurse Kacey Hansen attested, adding the deaths are mostly young adults who are clearly not making “cry for help” suicidal gestures. “They intend to die.”

That’s just one clinic, of course, and it might be dismissed as an anomaly if not for the fact that doctors across the country are sounding the alarms, warning Americans’ health – mental and physical – is deteriorating rapidly under lockdown, and not because of Covid-19. Over 500 physicians signed a letter to President Donald Trump earlier this week pleading with him to end the economic shutdown, which they called a “mass casualty incident.”

The signatories warned that as every last medical resource is devoted to the pandemic, not only are cancerous tumors going undetected and risk factors for heart disease and stroke multiplying, but suicide hotline call volume is up a shocking 600 percent. With these factors plus economic depression and stress feeding on each other, hundreds of millions of Americans are in very real danger of losing their lives over the next several months. This secondary pandemic unfolding in the long shadow of the Covid-19 shutdowns will be significantly more deadly than the virus itself.

So I guess those deaths are acceptable while those who die from the actual disease are not.  It's real.  It's happening every day across America.  That doesn't count those people that will have cancers go undetected, surgeries put off as "non essential"  people that suffer from depression getting worse, like me, alcohol abuse on the rise,  yeah let's just pretend these people's lives don't matter at all
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Jbsptfn
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#40
07-27-2020, 03:59 AM

(07-21-2020, 01:09 AM)Cali-Steeler Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 12:56 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(07-20-2020, 12:11 PM)RaynorShyne Wrote: Like I said in my original post: The 2020 NFL season promises to be interesting.

Laugh

I dunno, man. As of now, I have no plans to tune in. I'm not necessarily taking a "stand" here... I probably will end up checking it out if I'm honest with myself. But my interest in the NFL is at an all-time low.


  I could be wrong, but isn't Roger Goon-dell's contract up in 2021 and he said he wont be back?  He'd be bowing out in the middle of this crap 

  and letting the ship sink after making his 44 Mil a year and pissing off a lot of people.

.

I hope that he doesn't come back. However, I'm afraid that they will just elect another lackey just like him and Tagliabue. Since Rozelle left, they don't want a strong commissioner.
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mcmillenandwife
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#41
07-29-2020, 03:18 PM

(07-27-2020, 03:59 AM)Jbsptfn Wrote: I hope that he doesn't come back. However, I'm afraid that they will just elect another lackey just like him and Tagliabue. Since Rozelle left, they don't want a strong commissioner.

Couldn't agree more. 

The crazy thing is, the very people they're courting right now with their "wussification of the game" rule changes and unnecessary "woke" stances are the same people who are actively trying to literally END football as a sport, saying it's too violent, too dangerous and causes too many injuries.
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dbsfgyd1
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#42
07-31-2020, 02:46 AM

(07-29-2020, 03:18 PM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 03:59 AM)Jbsptfn Wrote: I hope that he doesn't come back. However, I'm afraid that they will just elect another lackey just like him and Tagliabue. Since Rozelle left, they don't want a strong commissioner.

Couldn't agree more. 

The crazy thing is, the very people they're courting right now with their "wussification of the game" rule changes and unnecessary "woke" stances are the same people who are actively trying to literally END football as a sport, saying it's too violent, too dangerous and causes too many injuries.

Me too. Let me rephrase that...Ahem, I agree. For the most part, it’s ended for me.  Like you said,  I’ll follow the Steelers until Ben retires. Then it’s over. Actually I may just pack it in on all professional sports. This year , I’ll watch the games on Game Pass Consensed, but this is the last cent I’m paying the shield.

Of course, if you look at the projected sal-cap for next year, there is going to be a major shuffle of talent in the league, and it’s going to hit the Steeler hard. There are quite a few players on the team that are going to want to be paid this off season. For instance, like our two starting OLBs, and starting DL captain, starting running back, starting left corner back, and a starting WR. Oh, forgot about starting left tackle.

I know Tomlin isn’t favorite around here but dealing with disaster is one of his strong suits and he may just pull a rabbit out of his....in 2021.
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dbsfgyd1
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#43
08-01-2020, 01:01 AM

Per Tribune Live: Interesting indeed.

Looks like the Blue Jays have called off a series of games due to Covid exposure, not infections, and we are only in the first week of baseball. At this rate, they will be playing baseball in December to make up missed games.

If the NFL follows suit, and it’s a given there is a lot more up close and personal contact than baseball, hockey, and basketball combined that will effect more players, there is no way to predict from week to week, day to day, who will be available, or even if a team will have to forfeit if short of a quorum.

All I can say is Colbert better have an extensive Rolodex of available unemployed players. He’s going to need it.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#44
08-01-2020, 01:01 AM

Sports is just about done for me as well. I'll watch as match basketball as I have in the past: 0.

I stopped watching NASCAR when Jeff Gordon retired. So the same: 0.

I've watched a little golf but have lost interest in it. I do like Rory, if its raining I might watch a little.

I enjoyed baseball but with the recent kneeling they're done for this year. It's starting to look as though the condensed season might be cancelled anyway.

I plan on following the Steelers until Ben retires but don't bet on it if the kneeling gets out of hand. I am cautiously hopeful the Steelers won't kneel.

At one time sports was the ultimate meritocracy, but not anymore. I look for most sports to be consumed by themselves and wither away on the vine.

As long as the old games are posted here I'm good with watching them.

A new classic would be the Steelers-Panther game November 8, 2018. it was very enjoyable to watch (unless you're a Panther fan).


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(This post was last modified: 08-01-2020, 02:33 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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