Steelers to honor Antwon Rose, JR on back of helmets
Chucktownsteeler
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#1
09-15-2020, 02:56 AM

Coming together to remember Antwon Rose Jr.

There is nothing that will bring Antwon Rose Jr. back.

There is nothing that will allow his mother, Michelle Kenney, to see his sweet, beautiful smile again.

There is nothing that will make the tears stop, tears that come all times of the day and night.

There is nothing that will heal the heartache for his mother, the pain, of suffering the loss of her 17-year old son in an unthinkable manner.

"Sometimes I just cry," said Kenney. "I just cry thinking about Antwon being gone."

* * *

On the night of June 19, 2018, the car Antwon Rose Jr., who is black, was a passenger in was pulled over by the East Pittsburgh Police. While the driver was being handcuffed on suspicion of being involved in an incident that happened earlier that evening, a frightened Rose fled from the car. The cell phone video a bystander captured showed Rose running, and then you could hear gunshots and see as he was fatally shot in the back three times by a white East Pittsburgh Police Officer.

Never in her wildest dreams could Kenney have imagined her son losing his life this way. Rose was accustomed to being around the police after his mom spent more than a decade working for a nearby police department in an administrative role. There were police in his family, including Kenney's father, an officer for more than 35 years in another jurisdiction. 

"My kids had a different relationship with the police than most kids," said Kenney. "My kids hung out with their kids. My kids hung out at the station. My kids even rode home with them sometimes. I know having that positive relationship with the police removed that fear some have so you wouldn't feel the need to run right away. Antwon didn't have a fear with the police until he had a negative engagement with the police on a traffic stop my daughter had where she got a ticket and they put a gun to his head. That changed his perception. At 16-years old he was scared. Scared enough that he didn't know what else to do but run."

* * *

Rose's memory is honored in the Pittsburgh area in numerous ways throughout the year, including on his birthday when the Hawkins Village community he grew up in gathers to celebrate in a manner that benefits other kids in the same neighborhood.

But tonight, when the Steelers take on the New York Giants at MetLife Stadium on Monday Night Football, his memory will be honored on one of the biggest stages imaginable.


This year the NFL is allowing players to wear helmet decals to honor victims of systemic racism. Players could select the name of an individual to wear on their helmet and the Steelers players and coaches united as one to wear a single name on the back of their helmets and hats for the entire 2020 season – Antwon Rose Jr.


Kenney received a call from Steelers Coach Mike Tomlin last week to inform her of what the team is doing.
"I can't explain it," said Kenney of what it was like to get that call. "It was indescribable. It's my son. And not only is one person on the team going to wear his name on their helmet. They took a vote, and the entire team is going to wear his name on their helmets. How do you even make sense of that? I wish I could give you some adjective to explain, but I can't do anything but cry. I can't do anything but cry."

Her voice cracked as she searched for the words, tears flowing as her wish of working together with the Steelers to make a change became a reality.

"Being on the phone and hearing that the sports team right here in my city wants to represent my son and tell his story, there are no words for that," said Kenney. "I wish I could give you something nice to write, but you can't express that. You hear Mike Tomlin's voice on television, and I am not saying he is a superhero, but you hear him on television. I am holding the phone and I know it's him, but I just couldn't believe the words I was hearing.

"To get a call, with Mike Tomlin on the phone, to tell me he has two sons and he worries too. He said the team took a vote and they decided to do it. He told me he understood. He told me he worries about his kids. My thought was if he is worried about his kids, then everybody has to worry.

"Then to say we are going to support you. We want you to be involved in what we are doing. There are no words to describe that. I am just Antwon's mom. This situation comes with a whole lot of pain. I mean a lot of pain."

It's pain she can't hide, nor should she try to. It's pain that others see and want to help her with.

"It's been a whirlwind ever since that call," said Kenney. "There are so many mixed emotions. I realize at the end of the day, Antwon is gone. But the Steelers are taking a stand. They are trying to make change and they want to be involved. That means more to me than anything. There are kids out here that look up to these players. Kids who watch the Coach on television, they look like most of the kids I know. It's important. It really is. I hope the players understand how important this is to these kids.

"Them wearing his name takes it to a whole other level. That is something so different. I am just grateful.

"To me it's not about Antwon. Antwon is gone and I couldn't save him. But if I could collaborate with the Pittsburgh Steelers and save one life, I am grateful."



* * *

Kenney means what she says about wanting to save other kids. Her past and continued relationship with those in law enforcement gives her a unique perspective.



"There are some great cops out there. I have friends who are cops," said Kenney. "We talk. They call me. I call them. They showed up at Antwon's funeral. They aren't all bad. I don't think the kids know that. I think if the kids could see what I saw when I was working there, things would be different. But I don't think they see these kids as just kids and the kids don't see them as good cops.



"Without that. Without bridging that gap, it's never going to change. I always am trying to figure out how to bridge that gap. With me, trying to change the law, people assume I disconnect with the police and that's not it. I want it to be better for both sides. I don't even want there to be a side. We need law enforcement. It's necessary. But there needs to be a balance and we lost that. I am hoping us working together we can help find that."



Cameron Heyward knows that there is power in numbers, that people working together for one cause can make a difference, even if that means saving just one life.



"When you think about Antwon Rose's story, we don't want to ever let his legacy go away," said Heyward, one of the Steelers team captains and a voice that has been heard in the team's fight against social injustice. "That kid had a bright future and he was taken away too early. We see all of these things happening across our country now. This hit home.



"The work his mom is doing to better the community and improve police relations in the community is awesome. We want to show we are with her as she continues to deal with this. I know it can't be an easy thing. She has to deal with this every day. But we are behind her. We see what she is doing and love what she is doing. We can do so much more if we can have her back and continue to remember Antwon.

"It's so powerful. We understand we can't bring back the loved ones we've lost. All we can do is try to prevent more. We know there are great people who are police and are involved in their communities. But all we can do is try to improve that. We want to have better relationships, so it's never escalated. We don't want to lose any more of our loved ones. Hopefully we can say in the future Antwon Rose's story changed the narrative and the hearts of many people."



Rose had a bright future ahead of him. He was only 17-years old, was an honor student at Woodland Hills High School. He did volunteer work. He cared about others.

"Antwon was really a good kid. I know a lot of moms say their kid was a good kid. But Antwon truly was a good kid," said Kenney. "One bad decision shouldn't cost you your life. There was not a second chance for Antwon. Meanwhile some of us have had many. He did well in school. He was involved in his community. He volunteered. He worked. He gave away everything he had. He didn't deserve to die. He didn't."

The heartache in Kenney's voice was palpable. The tears, they were flowing once again, or maybe still is the right way to say it. The heartbreak isn't even close to healing for her.

"When your kid leaves the house, you shouldn't have to pray that he is going to come back home," said Kenney. "I never, ever, ever would have imagined this. Not even in my nightmares. But if it can happen to Antwon, it can happen to anyone. He really was a good kid, and he was just a kid."

Rose was a sports fanatic. You name it, he loved the sport. And football was right near the top, with a love for the Steelers.

Kenney remembers when Rose was just six or seven and framed photos of Steelers players were made available at the U.S. Post Office in the Pittsburgh area. Rose wanted a picture of Antwaan Randle El because they had the same first name, even if it was spelled differently. 

"Antwon had me going from post office, to post office, to post office to find this one photo," said Kenney. "Finally, we found it at the Braddock Post Office. We bought the photo, then we had to go get the shirt because it had Antwon's name on it, even though it wasn't spelled the same. I couldn't convince him that it wasn't him. It's a true story. We went to every post office there was."
* * *
Kenney stopped and thought for a few minutes. She took some deep breaths and realized over the past week nobody she shared the news with has talked to her about this. Nobody asked her the question, the question of how she was going to feel tonight when the moment happens, when the Steelers take the field with her son's name on the back of their helmets.

"It's crazy you would ask me this question. No one has asked me it," said Kenney. "It's like a train wreck. I want to see it. I want to feel the love for my son. But the pain of knowing what happened to him and how it happened, I just don't know. I am literally struggling because it hurts just to think about him.

"In the same breath, I am Antwon's mom. Nothing greater could have happened in these last two years than this right here. Don't get me wrong, I have had some good things happen. But this isn't just good for Antwon, this is good for the city. This is for communities such as mine. It's not just for Antwon. It's for all the little boys and girls out there that look like Antwon.

"I have been thinking about that. Not even just the actual game itself. I have been worried how everyone is going to handle that mentally. I understand with all of the good press, the positive things being said, the Steelers are going to face a backlash. People can be mean and really cruel."

What Kenney is hoping is that cruelty turns into love. It turns into understanding. It turns into unity and togetherness.
"I am hoping with all of the players using their platforms, and all of the followers they have, at least some of these people are open minded enough to listen," said Kenney. "I am a firm believer if you support the player, your views probably align. I am hoping the players using their platform, they will be able to change the minds of some of their followers.

"I pray all day, every day, that change happens. I just keep getting my feelings hurt because every time you turn around it's happening again. I know we can't sit back and do nothing. Public speaking was never for me, but I know if I talk and people listen, we have a chance of making a change. I figured put Antwon Rose's mom and the Pittsburgh Steelers together, a whole lot of people are going to listen."

And with a national television audience seeing his name, saying his name on Monday night, people are going to listen to Antwon Rose's story.

"Although I am smiling, I am still crying," said Kenney. "Everyone is going to hear his story, see his name, but it's my son. I don't know what I am going to do on Monday. No doubt I will be glued to the television. The memories, speaking about it, and knowing Antwon is still going to be here.   

"I will probably be crying, and it won't have anything to do with what is happening in the game."



Read more: https://www.steelers.com/news/coming-tog...41avm3fwgM


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(This post was last modified: 09-15-2020, 02:57 AM by Chucktownsteeler.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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#2
09-15-2020, 03:06 AM

The other side of the story:

Antwon Rose II was a 17-year-old African-American who was fatally shot in East Pittsburgh on June 19, 2018 by East Pittsburgh Police Officer Michael Rosfeld after being involved in a near-fatal drive-by shooting.[2] He fled while officers were handcuffing the driver. Gunshot residue was later found on his hand.[3] He was transported to McKeesport Hospital where he was later declared deceased.[4]

Following the shooting, Rosfeld was charged with criminal homicide.[5] After a 4-day trial, Rosfeld was acquitted on all counts.[6]

Rose was 17 years old when he died.[7] He had worked as a community volunteer and was an honor roll student at Woodland Hills High School, where he took Advanced Placement classes.[8] Rose had no significant criminal record prior to his death.[9] His mother had been a clerk for another police department.[9]

Rosfeld had been sworn in to the East Pittsburgh Police Department only a few hours before the shooting, and trained with the department for three weeks prior. He had seven years experience with other police departments, including those in the Pennsylvania towns of Oakmont and Harmar, and the University of Pittsburgh.[10] Rosfeld left the University of Pittsburgh “after discrepancies were found between one of his sworn statements and evidence in an arrest.“ [11]

On Tuesday June 19, 2018, there was a drive-by shooting in North Braddock around 8:30 p.m. Just 10 minutes later, police stopped a car matching witness descriptions of the silver Chevrolet Cruze used in the drive-by shooting. The police observed bullet holes on the side of the car.[12]

A video recording taken by a bystander shows police ordering the driver to step out from the car.[12] While the driver was being handcuffed, Rose and the third occupant, Zaijuan Hester, ran from the car.[13] Rosfeld fired three rounds, and Rose was struck by all three.[13] He was pronounced dead at McKeesport Hospital.[4]

In the video, a woman's voice is heard saying, "Why they shooting at him? All they did was run, and they shooting at them." [sic] [2] Police said that Rose had been unarmed when he was shot.[13] Hester escaped, but was later arrested.[14]

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette published video footage showing Rose in the front passenger seat of a Chevrolet Cruze, while Hester fired through the rear window behind him.[15] Contradicting that video evidence, drive-by victim William Ross told investigators on January 17, 2019 that Rose was in fact the individual who had shot him: "The beef was between me and him, that car came by, he shot me, I ran to the store."[16]

Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala stated that Rose had an empty 9-millimeter handgun magazine in his pocket, and officials stated there were two guns in the car, a 9-millimeter handgun and a .40-caliber handgun.[17][18] According to police, Hester had fired the .40-caliber handgun.[18]

Trial testimony from a scientist at the Allegheny County Medical Examiner’s Office showed that Rose had gunshot residue on his hands at the time he was shot and his DNA was found on the 9mm pistol found under the passenger seat.[19] During the trial, Rosfeld's attorney additionally claimed that Rose had stolen one of the handguns found in the car during an armed robbery of his employer just hours before he was shot. However, this was ruled inadmissible by Judge Alexander Bicket, as information regarding the gun theft was unknown to Rosfeld when he conducted the felony traffic stop.[20]

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette published video footage showing Rose in the front passenger seat of a Chevrolet Cruze, while Hester fired through the rear window behind him.[15] Contradicting that video evidence, drive-by victim William Ross told investigators on January 17, 2019 that Rose was in fact the individual who had shot him: "The beef was between me and him, that car came by, he shot me, I ran to the store."[16]

Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala stated that Rose had an empty 9-millimeter handgun magazine in his pocket, and officials stated there were two guns in the car, a 9-millimeter handgun and a .40-caliber handgun.[17][18] According to police, Hester had fired the .40-caliber handgun.[18]

Trial testimony from a scientist at the Allegheny County Medical Examiner’s Office showed that Rose had gunshot residue on his hands at the time he was shot and his DNA was found on the 9mm pistol found under the passenger seat.[19] During the trial, Rosfeld's attorney additionally claimed that Rose had stolen one of the handguns found in the car during an armed robbery of his employer just hours before he was shot. However, this was ruled inadmissible by Judge Alexander Bicket, as information regarding the gun theft was unknown to Rosfeld when he conducted the felony traffic stop.[20]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_o...on_Rose_Jr.


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dbsfgyd1
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09-15-2020, 04:45 AM

(09-15-2020, 03:06 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: The other side of the story:

Antwon Rose II was a 17-year-old African-American who was fatally shot in East Pittsburgh on June 19, 2018 by East Pittsburgh Police Officer Michael Rosfeld after being involved in a near-fatal drive-by shooting.[2] He fled while officers were handcuffing the driver. Gunshot residue was later found on his hand.[3] He was transported to McKeesport Hospital where he was later declared deceased.[4]

Following the shooting, Rosfeld was charged with criminal homicide.[5] After a 4-day trial, Rosfeld was acquitted on all counts.[6]

Rose was 17 years old when he died.[7] He had worked as a community volunteer and was an honor roll student at Woodland Hills High School, where he took Advanced Placement classes.[8] Rose had no significant criminal record prior to his death.[9] His mother had been a clerk for another police department.[9]

Rosfeld had been sworn in to the East Pittsburgh Police Department only a few hours before the shooting, and trained with the department for three weeks prior. He had seven years experience with other police departments, including those in the Pennsylvania towns of Oakmont and Harmar, and the University of Pittsburgh.[10] Rosfeld left the University of Pittsburgh “after discrepancies were found between one of his sworn statements and evidence in an arrest.“ [11]

On Tuesday June 19, 2018, there was a drive-by shooting in North Braddock around 8:30 p.m. Just 10 minutes later, police stopped a car matching witness descriptions of the silver Chevrolet Cruze used in the drive-by shooting. The police observed bullet holes on the side of the car.[12]

A video recording taken by a bystander shows police ordering the driver to step out from the car.[12] While the driver was being handcuffed, Rose and the third occupant, Zaijuan Hester, ran from the car.[13] Rosfeld fired three rounds, and Rose was struck by all three.[13] He was pronounced dead at McKeesport Hospital.[4]

In the video, a woman's voice is heard saying, "Why they shooting at him? All they did was run, and they shooting at them." [sic] [2] Police said that Rose had been unarmed when he was shot.[13] Hester escaped, but was later arrested.[14]

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette published video footage showing Rose in the front passenger seat of a Chevrolet Cruze, while Hester fired through the rear window behind him.[15] Contradicting that video evidence, drive-by victim William Ross told investigators on January 17, 2019 that Rose was in fact the individual who had shot him: "The beef was between me and him, that car came by, he shot me, I ran to the store."[16]

Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala stated that Rose had an empty 9-millimeter handgun magazine in his pocket, and officials stated there were two guns in the car, a 9-millimeter handgun and a .40-caliber handgun.[17][18] According to police, Hester had fired the .40-caliber handgun.[18]

Trial testimony from a scientist at the Allegheny County Medical Examiner’s Office showed that Rose had gunshot residue on his hands at the time he was shot and his DNA was found on the 9mm pistol found under the passenger seat.[19] During the trial, Rosfeld's attorney additionally claimed that Rose had stolen one of the handguns found in the car during an armed robbery of his employer just hours before he was shot. However, this was ruled inadmissible by Judge Alexander Bicket, as information regarding the gun theft was unknown to Rosfeld when he conducted the felony traffic stop.[20]

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette published video footage showing Rose in the front passenger seat of a Chevrolet Cruze, while Hester fired through the rear window behind him.[15] Contradicting that video evidence, drive-by victim William Ross told investigators on January 17, 2019 that Rose was in fact the individual who had shot him: "The beef was between me and him, that car came by, he shot me, I ran to the store."[16]

Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala stated that Rose had an empty 9-millimeter handgun magazine in his pocket, and officials stated there were two guns in the car, a 9-millimeter handgun and a .40-caliber handgun.[17][18] According to police, Hester had fired the .40-caliber handgun.[18]

Trial testimony from a scientist at the Allegheny County Medical Examiner’s Office showed that Rose had gunshot residue on his hands at the time he was shot and his DNA was found on the 9mm pistol found under the passenger seat.[19] During the trial, Rosfeld's attorney additionally claimed that Rose had stolen one of the handguns found in the car during an armed robbery of his employer just hours before he was shot. However, this was ruled inadmissible by Judge Alexander Bicket, as information regarding the gun theft was unknown to Rosfeld when he conducted the felony traffic stop.[20]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_o...on_Rose_Jr.

69 Sheep with decals on their helmets. Truly sad. Oh well, choices have consequences. Where do I turn in my fan membership card?
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Chucktownsteeler
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09-15-2020, 04:59 AM

dbsfgyd1,

In all honesty these cases across the country now are not always clear cut. In a perfect world Rose would not have placed himself in that car, nor would he have run. We had a similar case in North Charleston and the policeman was fired and found guilty and is serving a 10-year prison sentence.


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dbsfgyd1
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09-15-2020, 05:57 AM

(09-15-2020, 04:59 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: dbsfgyd1,

In all honesty these cases across the country now are not always clear cut. In a perfect world Rose would not have placed himself in that car, nor would he have run. We had a similar case in North Charleston and the policeman was fired and found guilty and is serving a 10-year prison sentence.
While I certainly don’t approve of the actions of a very small percentage of law enforcement officers, and yes, those should be prosecuted and or barred for life, truth is it is a very small percentage of the total interactions between law enforcement officers and the public. Most  adverse outcomes are occur in situations where the victim in someway or another was not cooperating, and or acting like they were dangerous, or in very suspicious situations. 

True, one is too many, but I can tell you for a fact that BLM does not apply to the residents of certain parts of Richmond. It’s Bs killing Bs on almost a daily basis. Where is the outrage over this? It’s been going on in our inter cities for over a century. Where is the outrage?

I’ll tell you where it is. It’s easier to assess blame than to look in the mirror, see the real problem, then doing something about it.

Instead, Like the other side of the story, the police go to investigate, either people run, or haven’t seen anything. This choirboy was a suspect in a felony that involved guns. This officer had about split second to make a decision. For all he knows is this kid could have been armed and a threat to his life.  I guarantee this police officer didn’t wake up that day thinking he’s going out trophy hunting that night. The only issue here is he did his job, and of course he was acquitted on all charges.

I understand those that can rationalize honoring  this specific incident as a metaphor for situations where there was an unjustified murder, unwarranted arrest, or detainment (which happens to whites as well BTW, but  just doesn’t show up in the news), but for me, until the outrage is applied equally to law enforcement officials and the people that are doing the same thing to their friends and neighbors to the tune of 10 of thousands of deaths a year, I’m not buying it.
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Chucktownsteeler
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09-15-2020, 08:26 AM

(09-15-2020, 05:57 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 04:59 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: dbsfgyd1,

In all honesty these cases across the country now are not always clear cut. In a perfect world Rose would not have placed himself in that car, nor would he have run. We had a similar case in North Charleston and the policeman was fired and found guilty and is serving a 10-year prison sentence.
While I certainly don’t approve of the actions of a very small percentage of law enforcement officers, and yes, those should be prosecuted and or barred for life, truth is it is a very small percentage of the total interactions between law enforcement officers and the public. Most  adverse outcomes are occur in situations where the victim in someway or another was not cooperating, and or acting like they were dangerous, or in very suspicious situations. 

True, one is too many, but I can tell you for a fact that BLM does not apply to the residents of certain parts of Richmond. It’s Bs killing Bs on almost a daily basis. Where is the outrage over this? It’s been going on in our inter cities for over a century. Where is the outrage?

I’ll tell you where it is. It’s easier to assess blame than to look in the mirror, see the real problem, then doing something about it.

Instead, Like the other side of the story, the police go to investigate, either people run, or haven’t seen anything. This choirboy was a suspect in a felony that involved guns. This officer had about split second to make a decision. For all he knows is this kid could have been armed and a threat to his life.  I guarantee this police officer didn’t wake up that day thinking he’s going out trophy hunting that night. The only issue here is he did his job, and of course he was acquitted on all charges.

I understand those that can rationalize honoring  this specific incident as a metaphor for situations where there was an unjustified murder, unwarranted arrest, or detainment (which happens to whites as well BTW, but  just doesn’t show up in the news), but for me, until the outrage is applied equally to law enforcement officials and the people that are doing the same thing to their friends and neighbors to the tune of 10 of thousands of deaths a year, I’m not buying it.

I agree there are too many unknown variables. I just hate it when anyone is shot in the back. I go by the code of the west.


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dbsfgyd1
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09-15-2020, 11:59 PM

(09-15-2020, 08:26 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 05:57 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 04:59 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: dbsfgyd1,

In all honesty these cases across the country now are not always clear cut. In a perfect world Rose would not have placed himself in that car, nor would he have run. We had a similar case in North Charleston and the policeman was fired and found guilty and is serving a 10-year prison sentence.
While I certainly don’t approve of the actions of a very small percentage of law enforcement officers, and yes, those should be prosecuted and or barred for life, truth is it is a very small percentage of the total interactions between law enforcement officers and the public. Most  adverse outcomes are occur in situations where the victim in someway or another was not cooperating, and or acting like they were dangerous, or in very suspicious situations. 

True, one is too many, but I can tell you for a fact that BLM does not apply to the residents of certain parts of Richmond. It’s Bs killing Bs on almost a daily basis. Where is the outrage over this? It’s been going on in our inter cities for over a century. Where is the outrage?

I’ll tell you where it is. It’s easier to assess blame than to look in the mirror, see the real problem, then doing something about it.

Instead, Like the other side of the story, the police go to investigate, either people run, or haven’t seen anything. This choirboy was a suspect in a felony that involved guns. This officer had about split second to make a decision. For all he knows is this kid could have been armed and a threat to his life.  I guarantee this police officer didn’t wake up that day thinking he’s going out trophy hunting that night. The only issue here is he did his job, and of course he was acquitted on all charges.

I understand those that can rationalize honoring  this specific incident as a metaphor for situations where there was an unjustified murder, unwarranted arrest, or detainment (which happens to whites as well BTW, but  just doesn’t show up in the news), but for me, until the outrage is applied equally to law enforcement officials and the people that are doing the same thing to their friends and neighbors to the tune of 10 of thousands of deaths a year, I’m not buying it.

I agree there are too many unknown variables. I just hate it when anyone is shot in the back. I go by the code of the west.

Yeah, there was nothing more despicable than shooting somebody in the back and leaving them for the buzzards.
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09-16-2020, 11:39 AM

I'm not so sure about there's nothing more despicable than this event. How about shooting a 5 year in the head in Georgia as he was riding his bike in the front yard? Or shooting an infant in a stroller as his Mom was being robbed? Or an assailant walking up to a patrol car in CA and shooting two police personnel and having folks surrounding the incident joking about it and cheering the felon on rather than lending a hand to the officers.

Those, at least in my view, were much more despicable than shooting a kid who likely had just fired a weapon and was in a vehicle where another passenger shot at officers. I guess "good" kids do dumb things but I've never met a "good" kid who tried to shoot someone.

I'm a strong supporter of our police personnel. There's no doubt there's a rotten apple or two in the bunch but those types are uncommon. Unlike the felons they are forced to encounter. I've never walked a mile in either shoes but when one see's the ugly side of society on a regular basis I imagine the stress levels get out of hand. When weapons are involved in any incident I have difficulty blaming any officer for trying to protect himself and his partner.
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09-16-2020, 10:33 PM

Took the time to read the Trib this morning since we will be getting a rainout on the golf course. I try to keep up with the events in the city so I can have a decent basis to communicate with our family members still residing there. Saw that this boy's Mom is upset with AV's decision to recognize a man who received a silver star, maybe will be upgraded to a medal of honor, instead of her son.

AV understands and likely still lives duty, honor, country. That's a code I certainly respect. He, like his fellow combatant, fought for her free speech rights. What I think she needs to understand is AV also has those same rights. AV was part of another team. One that played by the values previously stated. I believe that should always hold over the values established by the nfl or Steeler organization.

I don't feel her son deserves the same respect, or any of all for that matter, as Sgt. Cashe. I'm pleased the coach recognized and supported AV's decision. The accounts I've read appear to indicate Rose was at best an accessory to a felony. His prints on one of the weapons found in the vehicle plus gun shot residue on his hands supports a concept that he could have committed a felony and shot that weapon at another human. How this deserves recognition escapes me.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#10
09-17-2020, 12:25 AM

(09-16-2020, 10:33 PM)sandfan Wrote: Took the time to read the Trib this morning since we will be getting a rainout on the golf course.  I try to keep up with the events in the city so I can have a decent basis to communicate with our family members still residing there.  Saw that this boy's Mom is upset with AV's decision to recognize a man who received a silver star, maybe will be upgraded to a medal of honor, instead of her son.

AV understands and likely still lives duty, honor, country.  That's a code I certainly respect.  He, like his fellow combatant, fought for her free speech rights.  What I think she needs to understand is AV also has those same rights.  AV was part of another team.  One that played by the values previously stated.  I believe that should always hold over the values established by the nfl or Steeler organization.  

I don't feel her son deserves the same respect, or any of all for that matter, as Sgt. Cashe.  I'm pleased the coach recognized and supported AV's decision.  The accounts I've read appear to indicate Rose was at best an accessory to a felony.  His prints on one of the weapons found in the vehicle plus gun shot residue on his hands supports a concept that he could have committed a felony and shot that weapon at another human.  How this deserves recognition escapes me.

AV requested and received permission to do so from coach Tomlin and the organization. To me that makes it a non-story. I feel terrible for the mom but the discussion the country needs to be having is why are the police acting in such a fashion. To hear the mom her son was an honor student and model citizen. That does not explain the fact he was riding shotgun in a car that was identified as in a "drive-by" shooting, nor does it explain why their was an empty 9mm under his seat and gun  shot residue on his hands.

The officer was fired and charged with murder. A jury of his peers found him not guilty, but his life is changed forever.

I wasn't there and neither was his mom but justice was rendered. I, myself, again just never understands nor can I agree with shooting someone in the back. You have the car and his accomplishes, where is he going? Maybe there's more to the story, I don't know.


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dbsfgyd1
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#11
09-17-2020, 05:32 AM

Well, the main reason he was shot is three fold. It was unknown if he was was still armed potentially able to shoot from cover putting the office and others in danger. Secondly he did not stop when ordered to do so. And finally, he may have been on his way to shoot at another victim. From his mom’s point of view he was an angel which he could have been up to that point, but based on the evidence at the officer trial, the night he was shot, Antwon Rose certainly was no angel, as the jury of peers determined.

In hindsight and time, sure the death was unnecessary, but in that split second that officer had to make his decision, taking a second split second could have resulted in him or others being dead.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#12
09-17-2020, 05:52 AM

(09-17-2020, 05:32 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: Well, the main reason he was shot is three fold.  It was unknown if he was was still armed potentially able to shoot from cover putting the office and others in danger. Secondly he did not stop when ordered to do so. And finally, he may have been on his way to shoot at another victim. From his mom’s point of view he was an angel which he could have been up to that point, but based on the evidence at the officer trial,  the night he was shot, Antwon Rose certainly was no angel, as the jury of peers determined.

In hindsight and time, sure the death was unnecessary, but in that split second that officer had to make his decision, taking a second split second could have resulted in him or others being dead.

As I had never heard of this case I spent my lunch hour reading articles and watching the videos. This is a terrible, terrible case. Was the kid an angel, heck no. But did he deserve what unfolded, heck no. I as a rule support policeman and women, no doubt. Most have a special calling for this job, they certainly aren't in it for money. 

As we all are human terrible things occur. The officer was fired and charged by the prosecutor. The jury (6-men, 6-women, 3 African American) found him not guilty. Hindsight is 20-20, but I feel bad for all involved. Unfortunately the case will still be tried in the court of public opinion.

This to me is a prime example of why politics and sports should never mix. Now the mother of Mr. Rose is publicly damning AV (in a weaselly way) and the players are involved. Coach Tomlin (who I've warmed up to a bit recently) and AV discussed and approved. Case should have been closed. Now you have Cam and Ben speaking out that the team did not know this. Is true this falls 100% on coach Tomlin. It should have been communicated to the team by management. I see this in business everyday, remember the line from the classic movie: "what we have hear is a failure to communicate."

Now we may have locker-room dissent. Thank you Mr. Goodell and company.


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sandfan
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#13
09-17-2020, 07:55 AM

This is why AV has the right and reasons to show his support for service personnel. They and his commitment to our Nation via his service should stand above some unknown kid who may or may not have been a felon.

I'm glad the coach understood his position. I trust the men on the team will as well. If his teammates were really surprised by his actions I guess they just don't know the worth of the man. He gave a clear signal in Chicago.

The nfl has opened Pandora's box with their forays into politics and race. Sadly, so have other sports in America. They are all now mostly lost to me. Thank God I have my family, friends, bicycle and golf course to provide all the diversion I need.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2989...-teammates
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RaynorShyne
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#14
09-18-2020, 12:57 PM

(09-15-2020, 08:26 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 05:57 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 04:59 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: dbsfgyd1,

In all honesty these cases across the country now are not always clear cut. In a perfect world Rose would not have placed himself in that car, nor would he have run. We had a similar case in North Charleston and the policeman was fired and found guilty and is serving a 10-year prison sentence.
While I certainly don’t approve of the actions of a very small percentage of law enforcement officers, and yes, those should be prosecuted and or barred for life, truth is it is a very small percentage of the total interactions between law enforcement officers and the public. Most  adverse outcomes are occur in situations where the victim in someway or another was not cooperating, and or acting like they were dangerous, or in very suspicious situations. 

True, one is too many, but I can tell you for a fact that BLM does not apply to the residents of certain parts of Richmond. It’s Bs killing Bs on almost a daily basis. Where is the outrage over this? It’s been going on in our inter cities for over a century. Where is the outrage?

I’ll tell you where it is. It’s easier to assess blame than to look in the mirror, see the real problem, then doing something about it.

Instead, Like the other side of the story, the police go to investigate, either people run, or haven’t seen anything. This choirboy was a suspect in a felony that involved guns. This officer had about split second to make a decision. For all he knows is this kid could have been armed and a threat to his life.  I guarantee this police officer didn’t wake up that day thinking he’s going out trophy hunting that night. The only issue here is he did his job, and of course he was acquitted on all charges.

I understand those that can rationalize honoring  this specific incident as a metaphor for situations where there was an unjustified murder, unwarranted arrest, or detainment (which happens to whites as well BTW, but  just doesn’t show up in the news), but for me, until the outrage is applied equally to law enforcement officials and the people that are doing the same thing to their friends and neighbors to the tune of 10 of thousands of deaths a year, I’m not buying it.

I agree there are too many unknown variables. I just hate it when anyone is shot in the back. I go by the code of the west.

So rather than being shot in the back by a cop who thought the fleeing suspect was armed - you'd rather see the posse' track him down on horseback and hang him.?
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RaynorShyne
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#15
09-18-2020, 01:06 PM

It would have been nice if they had considered Officer Lorne Ahrens, or Officer Michael Krol, or Sgt. Michael Smith, or Officer Brent Thompson, or Officer Patricio "Patrick" Zamarripa.....
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#16
09-19-2020, 12:10 AM

Minkah Fitzpatrick: Decision On Helmet Decal Came From ‘Everyone Upstairs’, Says They’re Grown Men With Opinions But No Cohesion Issues

It’s a good thing there won’t be any fans when the Pittsburgh Steelers take the field for their home opener on Sunday against the Denver Broncos. It will ease any burden, such that there is, that was placed on the roster after the team at the organizational level bungled their ‘united’ social justice messaging during the season opener.

While it got off to a good start, with everybody participating in raising a banner that simply read, ‘STEELERS AGAINST RACISM’, the prior words and documentation of claims that the team would present a united front and everyone would wear the same name of a victim of a police shooting immediately backfired when Alejandro Villanueva opted to wear another name.

We have discussed the matter at length already, but it has I believe been put to bed over the past 24 hours, and the blame appears to fall squarely on the shoulders of the higher-ups, rather than the players, including Villanueva, who was made once again to look like a rogue agent due to the lack of clarity available.

Yesterday, Minkah Fitzpatrick told reporters, “we knew we were going to have somebody on the back of our helmets and it wasn’t exactly clear on what it was going to be”, according to Will Graves of the Associated Press. “It was mostly made by everyone upstairs”.

Similarly, linebacker Vince Williams the day before said on Instagram live that there was some confusion, and that he didn’t even know or look at the back of his helmet. From appearances, it seems as though the decision that players would wear one name, and what name that would be, was primarily a matter decided above players’ heads, without a great deal of final input as a group. Still, nobody believes this will be an issue, ongoing or otherwise.

“We all come from different places, different backgrounds, everything else like that but when we’re out on the field, we have the same goal, the same mindset and that’s to win a game at hand”, Fitzpatrick said. “We’ll go out there in the locker room, be a team and work it out”.

He said that there are no cohesion issues, that they’re all “grown men”, and while these issues do matter to the players, “we’re going to put our opinions to the side and go out there and we’re going to have our conversations and talks in the locker room”.

As I stated yesterday, this was an easily avoidable an unnecessary controversy that created a lot of hurt and rancor for no reason, to the point that Art Rooney II felt the need to issue a statement letting it be known that the organization supports the right of players to make their individual decisions.

It is readily apparent by now that not all players will be wearing the same name on their helmets this week as they did on Monday night. Maurkice Pouncey, for example, said on Instagram that he felt he had limited information at the time it was decided what the team would do. Some players may not even have been aware of what name was on their helmets—or even who that name belonged to.

“We talked briefly about it, but it was mostly made by people upstairs,” Fitzpatrick said, according to the outlet. “Don’t know exactly who. Don’t know exactly how. We knew we were going to have somebody on the back of our helmets. It wasn’t exactly clear who it was going to be.”

Read more: https://steelersdepot.com/2020/09/minkah...on-issues/


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Chucktownsteeler
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#17
09-19-2020, 12:13 AM

If true pretty despicable move by Art II. It appears he and his minions made the decision and pretty much hung the players out to dry.


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RaynorShyne
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#18
09-19-2020, 01:25 AM

(09-19-2020, 12:13 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: If true pretty despicable move by Art II. It appears he and his minions made the decision and pretty much hung the players out to dry.

Is it?  The Family has had rock solid ties to the Democratic party for years.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#19
09-19-2020, 01:27 AM

(09-19-2020, 01:25 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote:
(09-19-2020, 12:13 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: If true pretty despicable move by Art II. It appears he and his minions made the decision and pretty much hung the players out to dry.

Is it?  The Family has had rock solid ties to the Democratic party for years.

Well imagine that. Do you mean the Rose family or the Rooney family?


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sandfan
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#20
09-19-2020, 04:32 AM

I recall the Rooney's were strong supporters of Obama and democrats in general. I don't begrudge or object to anyone's desire to take a position on most issues. But I do dislike it when those ideas or positions are forced upon me.

The owners and players should understand their political and social justice positions should be set aside and they should focus completely on football. To do otherwise will not be accepted by a portion of the fan base. I am offended by what they continue to do and therefore no longer contribute to the enterprise or its sponsors. Perhaps that means little to nothing today but, when enough object, the hit on the bottom lines of all involved will be recognized and maybe create an improved atmosphere.
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09-19-2020, 06:16 AM

(09-19-2020, 04:32 AM)sandfan Wrote: I recall the Rooney's were strong supporters of Obama and democrats in general.  I don't begrudge or object to anyone's desire to take a position on most issues.  But I do dislike it when those ideas or positions are forced upon me.

The owners and players should understand their political and social justice positions should be set aside and they should focus completely on football.  To do otherwise will not be accepted by a portion of the fan base.  I am offended by what they continue to do and therefore no longer contribute to the enterprise or its sponsors.  Perhaps that means little to nothing today but, when enough object, the hit on the bottom lines of all involved will be recognized and maybe create an improved atmosphere.

Agree 100%.  I've spent my last dollar on anything NFL-related until they stop this.  I've also decided to stop reading Steelers news from Google or other on-line sources.  The articles are focused on all the drama of the offended Ms. Kinney, and the outrage over AV doing what he thought was right, and Pouncey speaking up that he didn't know the whole story, and then Ms. Kinney the self-appointed moral compass for the Steelers saying he should have talked to her first.

- The NFL gets no more money from me until they get their collective heads out of their @$$-$.
- Sports media gets no more click bait hits from me.  I can read all the reposted drivel here.  (Thanks Chuck)
- If there happens to be any football related stuff, I'll get that here too.
- I've just moved to VA and will not be getting ANY sports packages when we finally pull the trigger and get satellite.

Ratings and revenues are down across the board.  They'll feel it worse than they even expected from COVID.  The salary cap was already going to be hit due to reduced game attendance.  It will be even worse when the merchandise, ratings, and sponsorships all take a hit.

BTW.  Missed you guys.  Good to see there is life here and some familiar names.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#22
09-19-2020, 06:43 AM

(09-19-2020, 06:16 AM)Vitriol Wrote:
(09-19-2020, 04:32 AM)sandfan Wrote: I recall the Rooney's were strong supporters of Obama and democrats in general.  I don't begrudge or object to anyone's desire to take a position on most issues.  But I do dislike it when those ideas or positions are forced upon me.

The owners and players should understand their political and social justice positions should be set aside and they should focus completely on football.  To do otherwise will not be accepted by a portion of the fan base.  I am offended by what they continue to do and therefore no longer contribute to the enterprise or its sponsors.  Perhaps that means little to nothing today but, when enough object, the hit on the bottom lines of all involved will be recognized and maybe create an improved atmosphere.

Agree 100%.  I've spent my last dollar on anything NFL-related until they stop this.  I've also decided to stop reading Steelers news from Google or other on-line sources.  The articles are focused on all the drama of the offended Ms. Kinney, and the outrage over AV doing what he thought was right, and Pouncey speaking up that he didn't know the whole story, and then Ms. Kinney the self-appointed moral compass for the Steelers saying he should have talked to her first.

- The NFL gets no more money from me until they get their collective heads out of their @$$-$.
- Sports media gets no more click bait hits from me.  I can read all the reposted drivel here.  (Thanks Chuck)
- If there happens to be any football related stuff, I'll get that here too.
- I've just moved to VA and will not be getting ANY sports packages when we finally pull the trigger and get satellite.

Ratings and revenues are down across the board.  They'll feel it worse than they even expected from COVID.  The salary cap was already going to be hit due to reduced game attendance.  It will be even worse when the merchandise, ratings, and sponsorships all take a hit.

BTW.  Missed you guys.  Good to see there is life here and some familiar names.

Vitriol,

Glad to see you back, you were missed. I hope some other long time posters return to the fold. I'll do my best to  keep the new posts flowing. It's not to hard this year as I'm grounded (since March) and working from home.

I canceled the NFL package 2 years ago on DirecTV and the weasels hooked it back up without my permission last season. I made them refund me every last cent. You may want to keep an eye on your bill when you do get settled. 

My thoughts are I'll watch the Steelers (I never did watch much other NFL games) if they're on primetime or regular TV. If they're on Sunday I'll tape the games and watch them when the family is in bed. I won't take quality time away from the family.

Good luck in Virginia and stop back often.


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dbsfgyd1
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#23
09-19-2020, 08:49 AM

(09-19-2020, 12:13 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: If true pretty despicable move by Art II. It appears he and his minions made the decision and pretty much hung the players out to dry.

Maybe Art is taking the hit on this for PR cover for the players. “Well you guys made a mess of things. Just put the blame on me and we will put this to be.”

The funny thing about this helmet tribute fiasco, Jim McMahon got clobbered for, ahem, honoring Pete Rozelle. 

This who is puting what on a helmet has been blown way out of proportion. Can we please get back to football?
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Chucktownsteeler
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#24
09-22-2020, 12:53 AM

I red this morning Maurkice Pouncey had a name of a slain police officer on his helmet.


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Spokan Stiller
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#25
09-22-2020, 05:05 AM

Hello to all.  Haven't posted here in a million years, but it's nice to see it's still going strong.

It's been very painful, but I too have completely shunned the Steelers and the NFL this month.  I applaud Tim's position and agree whole-heartedly.  Like almost everyone here I have been an avid fan and have attended countless games.  I can't count the family memories that have revolved around the Steelers.  My son attends college in Pittsburgh now, and it's a terrible feeling to close the door on the Steelers.

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to protest, but this league and this team have just gone off the deep end.  We are a law enforcement family, and there is a very real war against the police right now, a war inspired by the left's reprehensible propaganda.  When the Steelers wear Mr. Rose's name on their helmets, they are complicit in the lies and they are fueling the war.

I applaud the actions of AV, Pouncey, Ben, and a few others, but until we get a formal retraction and apology I want nothing to do with any of it.  Even if the Steelers can get their heads on straight, I fear the rest of the league is so far gone that I can't ever see myself patronizing them.
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dbsfgyd1
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#26
09-23-2020, 09:06 AM

Spokan, good to see your post. You’ve been missed.

The undermining of our law enforcement officers by our elected representatives is a national disgrace. The fact that we are sending these idiots to public office to serve us is even more of a disgrace. They all need to go. Republicans, and Democrats a like.

All I can say is, where is the outrage? I live in the greater Richmond, BLM does exist in certain parts of this locale. Daily, Bs murdering Bs. So the Mayor, and Governor want to cut funding for law enforcement, with full support from it’s citizens. These are people with murders happening on their doorsteps. Where in the HE-double hockey sticks do these folks have their heads? Where is the outrage?

As for the NFL and the Steelers, I’ve been a fan for a long time, 1963 to be exact. It’s a hard habit to break. Most of us have a few guilty pleasures of some sort. Yeah, I’m not real keen on this social protest, but the reality it’s nothing more than garbage in, garbage out, courtesy of our national media. I agree we all should be po’d, but let’s not ignore the root cause of their discontent.

Being honest, we all should have started our boycott when the Brain damage thing came to light. I did stop watching for about a year and a half, but picked it back up. I managed to lick smoking cold turkey, but this seen to be a lot harder.

Anyway, welcome back.
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Spokan Stiller
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#27
09-24-2020, 06:42 AM

Thanks for the welcome. As you may recall, despite my ancient moniker, I'm right down the road in the Williamsburg area. We certainly have a wonderful governor. (Insert sarcastic emojis here).

I try not to get too self righteous with those of us still cheering on the Steelers (including my 19 year old son). I know I'm probably being a little bit of a hypocrite. If someone asked Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, John Fogerty and Jimi Hendrix to stand for the national anthem before their concerts in 1969, I'm pretty sure they'd refuse in the most obnoxious manner possible, and I don't think I'll ever boycott their music.

But for me, the current state of the NFL is just too much, and most my friends and family agree. I hope there can be some future compromise position that would allow me to enjoy things again, but I'm not optimistic.
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dbsfgyd1
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#28
09-25-2020, 02:10 AM

(09-24-2020, 06:42 AM)Spokan Stiller Wrote: Thanks for the welcome.  As you may recall, despite my ancient moniker, I'm right down the road in the Williamsburg area.  We certainly have a wonderful governor. (Insert sarcastic emojis here).

I try not to get too self righteous with those of us still cheering on the Steelers (including my 19 year old son).  I know I'm probably being a little bit of a hypocrite.  If someone asked Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, John Fogerty and Jimi Hendrix to stand for the national anthem before their concerts in 1969, I'm pretty sure they'd refuse in the most obnoxious manner possible, and I don't think I'll ever boycott their music.

But for me, the current state of the NFL is just too much, and most my friends and family agree.  I hope there can be some future compromise position that would allow me to enjoy things again, but I'm not optimistic.

Yep, I forgot you live down the street. I had lunch with Vitriol yesterday. He’s in the area too.
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