Ben regrets his decision
Chucktownsteeler
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#1
09-26-2017, 09:02 AM

Any of you buying onto this:

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said he wished his team had handled its protest of the national anthem differently.

Roethlisberger said in a statement on his website that he personally doesn't "believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest" after his team decided to remain off the field during the national anthem.

"The idea was to be unified as a team when so much attention is paid to things dividing our country, but I wish we approached it differently. We did not want to appear divided on the sideline with some standing and some kneeling or sitting," he said.

Roethlisberger said he "was unable to sleep last night" over the team's decision.

"I personally don't believe the Anthem is ever the time to make any type of protest," he said. "For me, and many others on my team and around the league, it is a tribute to those who commit to serve and protect our country, current and past, especially the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice."

"I appreciate the unique diversity in my team and throughout the league and completely support the call for social change and the pursuit of true equality. Moving forward, I hope standing for the Anthem shows solidarity as a nation, that we stand united in respect for the people on the front lines protecting our freedom and keeping us safe."

Nearly the entire Steelers team remained off the field during the national anthem after President Trump attacked players who kneeled during the anthem.
Only one player from the team appeared during the anthem: Alejandro Villanueva, a U.S. Army veteran who served three terms in Afghanistan.



Read more: http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ben-...li=BBnb7Kz


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Chucktownsteeler
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#2
09-26-2017, 09:03 AM

This could haunt these players the rest of their lives. This is and was a grave error in judgement (and I mean all players and all teams). There are certain lines you don't cross, this being one of them.


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sandfan
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#3
09-26-2017, 09:21 AM

Ben should have been more of leader, explained the consequences of the proposed action, pointed out the futility of what said actions have accomplished so far or seem to be in position to accomplish and moved his team to make a more rational decision. That's what leaders do. Overcome irrational and emotional displays that do more harm than good.

It's no doubt tougher to do so as a Caucasian in that room but race should not be a or the deciding factor. Good sense, respect and honor should. All lives matter. If you don't believe that ask the family members of cops who are shot by minority or Caucasian felons.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#4
09-26-2017, 09:32 AM

Ben has never been a locker-room leader. This team is devoid of leaders currently, with the possible exception of Harrison.

I'd like to know the Steeler players that wanted to kneel, I can just about guess 2 of them, Bell and Bryant.


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Rollers
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#5
09-26-2017, 10:56 AM

I'd be happy if he lost some sleep over the way he's playing this year as well
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mcmillenandwife
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#6
09-26-2017, 10:57 AM

(09-26-2017, 10:56 AM)Rollers Wrote: I'd be happy if he lost some sleep over the way he's playing this year as well

Laugh
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mcmillenandwife
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#7
09-26-2017, 11:01 AM

(09-26-2017, 09:21 AM)sandfan Wrote: Ben should have been more of leader, explained the consequences of the proposed action, pointed out the futility of what said actions have accomplished so far or seem to be in position to accomplish and moved his team to make a more rational decision.  That's what leaders do.  Overcome irrational and emotional displays that do more harm than good.  

It's no doubt tougher to do so as a Caucasian in that room but race should not be a or the deciding factor.  Good sense, respect and honor should.  All lives matter.  If you don't believe that ask the family members of cops who are shot by minority or Caucasian felons.


This is on Tomlin, the Rooney's and Goodell, not Ben. Ben is just a player. Yeah, he's an elite player. But he doesn't have the authority and responsibility of the coach.
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mcmillenandwife
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#8
09-26-2017, 11:02 AM

(09-26-2017, 09:03 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: This could haunt these players the rest of their lives. This is and was a grave error in judgement (and I mean all players and all teams). There are certain lines you don't cross, this being one of them.


I tend to agree. Lots of regrets.
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Crash
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#9
09-26-2017, 12:17 PM

Beat the Ravens in Baltimore next week and no one cares.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#10
09-26-2017, 03:37 PM

(09-26-2017, 12:17 PM)Crash Wrote: Beat the Ravens in Baltimore next week and no one cares.

I'm not so sure about that.


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mcmillenandwife
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#11
09-26-2017, 03:39 PM

(09-26-2017, 12:17 PM)Crash Wrote: Beat the Ravens in Baltimore next week and no one cares.


Laugh  Probably pretty much true. 

But not for me. The NFL isn't getting another penny from me. 

I'm not upset with Ben anyway. Maybe Tomlin was right in that respect; I'm not feeling any animosity toward players... just coaching, ownership, leadership.
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RaynorShyne
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#12
09-27-2017, 02:30 AM

(09-26-2017, 12:17 PM)Crash Wrote: Beat the Ravens in Baltimore next week and no one cares.

Kneel in Baltimore, or sit in Baltimore, in fact, do anything other than stand, shut up, and play a good game in Baltimore and the damage will get worse.
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#13
09-27-2017, 03:08 AM

How? The NFL, almost to a man, is supporting its players and doing everything but saying "Back at ya" to Trump.........and the ratings haven't tanked. The networks are still eager to broadcast NFL content. Not one advertiser has backed out yet. NOT ONE. Meanwhile, conservatives are being portrayed as woefully out of step with the current scene at best and as total boobs at worst. Even Trump supporters like Bob Kraft are choosing to stand by their players and rebuking Trump and his message quite strongly.

In short, viewpoints like the one shared by so many on this board are being completely ignored. The league's saying, "Go ahead, don't give us your money. Don't watch. We'll still make a ton and have high ratings without you, and YOU'LL be the one missing out on something a lot of you still saw as part of your lives until last week. You're not hurting us a bit, at least no more than any other issue we've got to deal with."

It doesn't sound like you guys are going to do any long-term damage to me. Maybe that will change sometime this season, and if it does I'll come back to this thread and admit I was wrong. But it doesn't seem possible now.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017, 03:10 AM by Garrett Garlits.)
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RaynorShyne
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#14
09-27-2017, 04:06 AM

(09-27-2017, 03:08 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: How? The NFL, almost to a man, is supporting its players and doing everything but saying "Back at ya" to Trump.........and the ratings haven't tanked ('tanked' is the operative word.  Ratings are off between 6% - 8% and attendance is off 8% from the same time in 2016.  The impact of the two hurricanes on this number is yet to be determined). The networks are still eager to broadcast NFL content. (They're still the #1 cash cow)  Not one advertiser has backed out yet. NOT ONE. (yet - however the advertisers abhor controversy.  This is bad for business.)  Meanwhile, conservatives are being portrayed as woefully out of step with the current scene at best and as total boobs at worst. (Conservatives?  Are you referring to the 'traditionalist' that think the protest is asinine and would rather politics stay out of football, or are you ignorant enough to believe this is a straight line "D versus R" issue?  Considering your wording, I'm assuming you are neither a 'conservative' nor a self-proclaimed 'boob' - though you just labeled 1/2 the country as such)   Even Trump supporters like Bob Kraft are choosing to stand by their players and rebuking Trump and his message quite strongly.

In short, viewpoints like the one shared by so many on this board are being completely ignored. The league's saying, "Go ahead, don't give us your money. Don't watch.  We'll still make a ton and have high ratings without you, and YOU'LL be the one missing out on something a lot of you still saw as part of your lives until last week. You're not hurting us a bit, at least no more than any other issue we've got to deal with." (What part of 'politics and football don't mix' don't you get?  Breast Cancer Awareness is fine.  It's a non-political disease.  However, something tells me if the NFL had a "Pro-Life" month - you'd lose your ever loving mind)  

It doesn't sound like you guys are going to do any long-term damage to me. Maybe that will change sometime this season, and if it does I'll come back to this thread and admit I was wrong. But it doesn't seem possible now. (You realize all this happened since Friday, right?  Let's see how it pans out next weekend - and the weekend after that, and after that....   The NFL makes it's money through a couple primary means:  a $400 million deal that secures the exclusive right for Surface tablets and other Microsoft technologies on the sidelines for all 32 teams, its four-year $4 billion partnership ($1 billion per season) with DirecTV, and although the NFL does not release its annual financial data, but one NFL team is a public entity: the Green Bay Packers. The Packers are the best barometer for team-by-team revenue because their financial reports must be made public. In 2013 the Packers earned $187.7 million in national revenue, which consists of its portion of NFL national television contracts, sponsorship's and a portion of jersey and ticket sales—split between all the NFL teams.  In case you don't know, Green Bay is in Wisconsin - which voted for Trump  - to include 65% of Brown County residents.  You may refer to them as as, "woefully out of step with the current scene at best and as total boobs at worst" if you will.)
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spokan steeler
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#15
09-27-2017, 04:28 AM

I think undoubtedly, the Steelers will pay for this much more dearly than any other franchise. The apathy at any Steeler home game is already off the charts, and that's with a team that's almost always in playoff contention.

I truly don't think the organization understands what they have stepped in, and that non-apology statement from Rooney ain't gonna help matters.
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Garrett Garlits
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#16
09-27-2017, 05:24 AM

Shyne: 'tanked' is the operative word.  Ratings are off between 6% - 8% and attendance is off 8% from the same time in 2016.  The impact of the two hurricanes on this number is yet to be determined).

And until it is, let's not assume anything.


Shyne: The advertisers abhor controversy.  This is bad for business.

True. But they've also got to take the pulse of this country (which they're no doubt already doing) and figure out if they'd lose even more money standing with Trump than they would with the NFL. If they would (and this varies by product, of course), they'll let the conservatives take their business elsewhere and not think twice about it.

Shyne: Conservatives?  Are you referring to the 'traditionalist' that think the protest is asinine and would rather politics stay out of football, or are you ignorant enough to believe this is a straight line "D versus R" issue?  Considering your wording, I'm assuming you are neither a 'conservative' nor a self-proclaimed 'boob' - though you just labeled 1/2 the country as such.

It's a "D versus R"- or more precisely, an "L versus C"- issue now because Trump MADE it one. All he had to do was not open his mouth the other day and let the players and the league do whatever it wanted, like they did anyway. He didn't stop so much as one protest, and now he has people in the league who wholeheartedly supported him 100% against him and willing to keep these protests up until he eats every last word he said. They may have a long wait, but they're not going anywhere. Like it or not, politics and football are now mixed more than ever before and will remain that way for years to come; the "traditionalists" have lost in a rout, and a lot of it is their leader (Trump's) fault.

Shyne: However, something tells me if the NFL had a "Pro-Life" month - you'd lose your ever loving mind.

It wouldn't exactly make my day, but I'd still watch. The Steelers and the NFL mean enough to me that I'd have a hell of a lot harder time casting them aside than most of you. They certainly mean more than the changing winds of politics.

I think it was you in another thread that went on and on about how Steeler fans were wrong to care about individual players, and you used Mike Webster, of all people, as an example. Let me tell you something: It's because people still care about guys like Webby that this site exists. We may not have gotten to know them personally, and they may never know how they impact our lives, but bonds have been strengthened as a result of Steeler football, family bonds even.

I'd love my dad no matter what, but one of the cornerstones of our relationship has been our love of the Steelers. Even my mother, who didn't care to know a football from a watermelon, tried her best to cheer for the team because she knew how much it meant to both of us. It still does. The players may come and go, and we learned to love Dirt Dawson as much as Webby, but never have we regarded any of them as faceless uniforms merely put on television for our entertainment. That goes for the Pirates, as lousy as they've been for most of my life, and the Penguins as well.

As far as financial data goes, all I can say is that it doesn't look like the Packers are going broke any time soon. Like I said earlier, this could all blow up in the NFL's face, but I'm betting it backfires on Trump first. I'm also betting that once he sees that he's only making things worse for his supporters, we never hear the initials "NFL" come out of his mouth in a political context again. What a pity that it ever had to happen in the first place.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#17
09-27-2017, 05:36 AM

(09-27-2017, 03:08 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: How? The NFL, almost to a man, is supporting its players and doing everything but saying "Back at ya" to Trump.........and the ratings haven't tanked. The networks are still eager to broadcast NFL content. Not one advertiser has backed out yet. NOT ONE. Meanwhile, conservatives are being portrayed as woefully out of step with the current scene at best and as total boobs at worst. Even Trump supporters like Bob Kraft are choosing to stand by their players and rebuking Trump and his message quite strongly.

In short, viewpoints like the one shared by so many on this board are being completely ignored. The league's saying, "Go ahead, don't give us your money. Don't watch.  We'll still make a ton and have high ratings without you, and YOU'LL be the one missing out on something a lot of you still saw as part of your lives until last week. You're not hurting us a bit, at least no more than any other issue we've got to deal with."

It doesn't sound like you guys are going to do any long-term damage to me. Maybe that will change sometime this season, and if it does I'll come back to this thread and admit I was wrong. But it doesn't seem possible now.

I can't speak for everyone on this board but my values aren't bought or measured by dollars. The Steelers were around before me and they'll be around after. That doesn't mean I have to watch.


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RaynorShyne
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#18
09-28-2017, 02:55 AM

(09-27-2017, 05:24 AM)Garrett Garlits Wrote: Shyne: 'tanked' is the operative word.  Ratings are off between 6% - 8% and attendance is off 8% from the same time in 2016.  The impact of the two hurricanes on this number is yet to be determined).

And until it is, let's not assume anything.


Shyne: The advertisers abhor controversy.  This is bad for business.

True. But they've also got to take the pulse of this country (which they're no doubt already doing) and figure out if they'd lose even more money standing with Trump than they would with the NFL. If they would (and this varies by product, of course), they'll let the conservatives take their business elsewhere and not think twice about it.

Shyne: Conservatives?  Are you referring to the 'traditionalist' that think the protest is asinine and would rather politics stay out of football, or are you ignorant enough to believe this is a straight line "D versus R" issue?  Considering your wording, I'm assuming you are neither a 'conservative' nor a self-proclaimed 'boob' - though you just labeled 1/2 the country as such.

It's a "D versus R"- or more precisely, an "L versus C"- issue now because Trump MADE it one. All he had to do was not open his mouth the other day and let the players and the league do whatever it wanted, like they did anyway. He didn't stop so much as one protest, and now he has people in the league who wholeheartedly supported him 100% against him and willing to keep these protests up until he eats every last word he said. They may have a long wait, but they're not going anywhere. Like it or not, politics and football are now mixed more than ever before and will remain that way for years to come; the "traditionalists" have lost in a rout, and a lot of it is their leader (Trump's) fault.

Shyne: However, something tells me if the NFL had a "Pro-Life" month - you'd lose your ever loving mind.

It wouldn't exactly make my day, but I'd still watch. The Steelers and the NFL mean enough to me that I'd have a hell of a lot harder time casting them aside than most of you. They certainly mean more than the changing winds of politics.

I think it was you in another thread that went on and on about how Steeler fans were wrong to care about individual players, and you used Mike Webster, of all people, as an example. Let me tell you something: It's because people still care about guys like Webby that this site exists. We may not have gotten to know them personally, and they may never know how they impact our lives, but bonds have been strengthened as a result of Steeler football, family bonds even.

I'd love my dad no matter what, but one of the cornerstones of our relationship has been our love of the Steelers. Even my mother, who didn't care to know a football from a watermelon, tried her best to cheer for the team because she knew how much it meant to both of us. It still does. The players may come and go, and we learned to love Dirt Dawson as much as Webby, but never have we regarded any of them as faceless uniforms merely put on television for our entertainment. That goes for the Pirates, as lousy as they've been for most of my life, and the Penguins as well.

As far as financial data goes, all I can say is that it doesn't look like the Packers are going broke any time soon. Like I said earlier, this could all blow up in the NFL's face, but I'm betting it backfires on Trump first. I'm also betting that once he sees that he's only making things worse for his supporters, we never hear the initials "NFL" come out of his mouth in a political context again. What a pity that it ever had to happen in the first place.

I recognize and appreciate that your argument is filled with feelings and emotions.

Mine isn't.  The NFL is a business.  As is the Pittsburgh Steelers.  Rooney's release wasn't about feelings, it was about protecting the brand.  I'm not emotionally invested in a business.  It's entertainment.  Leave politics out of the game.  Players kneeling are bad optics for the brand.  My bet is this week you'll see teams standing locked arm in arm - primarily because the business sees it as the best middle ground.
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RaynorShyne
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#19
09-28-2017, 03:54 AM

Through three weeks, viewership for national telecasts of NFL games is down 11 percent this season compared to 2016, the Nielsen company said on Tuesday.

https://apnews.com/bf595941ba9640e9ab32e474459f529c/Nielsen:-Football-ratings-off-11-percent-this-year

Nielsen said the games averaged 17.63 million viewers for the first three weeks of last season, and have dipped to 15.65 million this year. 

1.98 million less viewers of the Beer ads
1.98 million less viewers of the Verizon ads
1.98 million less viewers of the Car ads
1.98 million less viewers of the Airline ads
1.98 million less viewers of the Geico ads......
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RaynorShyne
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#20
10-03-2017, 03:37 AM

Still dropping...

With a 11.0/19 in metered-market results, last night’s SNF was down 5% from last week when the Washington Redskins beat the Oakland Raiders 27-10. As the league took another week-by-week ratings hit just a month into the 2017-18 season, Sunday’s game also was down a bit year-to-year.
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Crash
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#21
10-03-2017, 11:27 AM

(09-26-2017, 09:32 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Ben has never been a locker-room leader. 

Yes he has, and that drove Hines Ward and Jerome Bettis, the two biggest locker room lawyers in club history, crazy.  

They thought Ben should have to "kneel" and bow to them, he never did.
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Chucktownsteeler
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#22
10-04-2017, 09:48 AM

When has Ben been a lockeroom leader. Never.


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mcmillenandwife
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#23
10-04-2017, 10:24 AM

(10-04-2017, 09:48 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: When has Ben been a lockeroom leader. Never.


I don't think that's true, Chuck. It's definitely not true this year, IMO. I think you could probably make the case that he wasn't a team leader early in his career. But since Ward left, Ben has become the voice of the offense. The fact that Ben has been a team captain 7 times says plenty. He's been a team MVP. He and Cam Heyward are the only team captains this year.
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Crash
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#24
10-04-2017, 11:18 AM

(10-04-2017, 09:48 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: When has Ben been a lockeroom leader. Never.

Again you're FOS.  The difference between Ben's leadership skills and those of Hines and Bettis is that Ben did his without cameras.  

Hines was never a leader, he was a paranoid prima-donna who thought everyone was out to get him.  

The Pittsburgh media used to laugh behind his back, the term "The Leader of the Wideouts"?  The media used that as their little inside joke to mock him.
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10-04-2017, 11:48 AM

(10-04-2017, 11:18 AM)Crash Wrote: The Pittsburgh media used to laugh behind his back, the term "The Leader of the Wideouts"?  The media used that as their little inside joke to mock him.


Not arguing a point here, really... but who gives a shit what jealous, asshole media-types say behind a player's back that they would NEVER have the balls to say to the player's face?
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Crash
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#26
10-05-2017, 02:50 AM

(10-04-2017, 11:48 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(10-04-2017, 11:18 AM)Crash Wrote: The Pittsburgh media used to laugh behind his back, the term "The Leader of the Wideouts"?  The media used that as their little inside joke to mock him.


Not arguing a point here, really... but who gives a shit what jealous, asshole media-types say behind a player's back that they would NEVER have the balls to say to the player's face?

Missed the point.  The LOTW term was used for HINES' jealousy for his other WR's and his quarterback.  It really started in 2004.  Ben and Plax were close because they both lived in Washington's Landing, and they hung out together off the field, that drove Hines crazy.  He thought Ben and Plax were out to get him.  

Remember also, Hines was the ONLY teammate, to say that Ben's 2010 suspension was justified.  He also claimed that he never put himself in bad situations off the field.  Which is laughable because his man-whoring led to his divorce from his first wife, who he cheated on so much that she took their son, and went back to Georgia.  

His being pulled over in LA and then his DUI in mere months?  Fans acted shocked, but those in the know were only shocked that he finally got caught.
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#27
10-05-2017, 10:30 AM

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RaynorShyne
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#28
10-06-2017, 12:07 AM

(10-05-2017, 02:50 AM)Crash Wrote:
(10-04-2017, 11:48 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(10-04-2017, 11:18 AM)Crash Wrote: The Pittsburgh media used to laugh behind his back, the term "The Leader of the Wideouts"?  The media used that as their little inside joke to mock him.


Not arguing a point here, really... but who gives a shit what jealous, asshole media-types say behind a player's back that they would NEVER have the balls to say to the player's face?

Missed the point.  The LOTW term was used for HINES' jealousy for his other WR's and his quarterback.  It really started in 2004.  Ben and Plax were close because they both lived in Washington's Landing, and they hung out together off the field, that drove Hines crazy.  He thought Ben and Plax were out to get him.  

Remember also, Hines was the ONLY teammate, to say that Ben's 2010 suspension was justified.  He also claimed that he never put himself in bad situations off the field.  Which is laughable because his man-whoring led to his divorce from his first wife, who he cheated on so much that she took their son, and went back to Georgia.  

His being pulled over in LA and then his DUI in mere months?  Fans acted shocked, but those in the know were only shocked that he finally got caught.

Again - staying with my theme of viewing them as employees and not individuals to be emulated - I'd take a young Hines Ward back onto the team in a heartbeat.  This on-the-field play was great.
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#29
10-06-2017, 12:40 AM

(10-06-2017, 12:07 AM)RaynorShyne Wrote:
(10-05-2017, 02:50 AM)Crash Wrote:
(10-04-2017, 11:48 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote:
(10-04-2017, 11:18 AM)Crash Wrote: The Pittsburgh media used to laugh behind his back, the term "The Leader of the Wideouts"?  The media used that as their little inside joke to mock him.


Not arguing a point here, really... but who gives a shit what jealous, asshole media-types say behind a player's back that they would NEVER have the balls to say to the player's face?

Missed the point.  The LOTW term was used for HINES' jealousy for his other WR's and his quarterback.  It really started in 2004.  Ben and Plax were close because they both lived in Washington's Landing, and they hung out together off the field, that drove Hines crazy.  He thought Ben and Plax were out to get him.  

Remember also, Hines was the ONLY teammate, to say that Ben's 2010 suspension was justified.  He also claimed that he never put himself in bad situations off the field.  Which is laughable because his man-whoring led to his divorce from his first wife, who he cheated on so much that she took their son, and went back to Georgia.  

His being pulled over in LA and then his DUI in mere months?  Fans acted shocked, but those in the know were only shocked that he finally got caught.

Again - staying with my theme of viewing them as employees and not individuals to be emulated - I'd take a young Hines Ward back onto the team in a heartbeat.  This on-the-field play was great.
We have a Hines redux in Juju. Need a little work as he is only 20, but dang, he is the most physical receiver we’ve had in a long time. And heaven help any defender that intercepts a pass when he is on the field.

As for personality quirks, we all have them, so Hines gets a pass in my book. Great player, great Steeler.
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#30
10-06-2017, 03:29 AM

Don't question the guts and heart of your quarterback who didn't play in Baltimore because of a concussion a year AFTER you sat out the majority of an AFC Championship game against the same team with a bad knee.

Don't bash the off the field antics of your quarterback, when you're the biggest man-whore on the team (while married), while you were business partners with a convicted federal drug dealer.

That's not a personality quirk, that's called being a two faced hypocrite.
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