Colbert: We think Ben is going to be here a while
Desert Steel
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#1
04-26-2017, 02:22 AM

Good news!

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/04/kev...ger-going/


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The Lakelander
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#2
04-26-2017, 03:30 AM

I have an alternative viewpoint on this ... Big Ben, remember, had a devastating motorcycle crash as a young man, and has suffered/played through multiple injuries. That all catches up to a mid-30's fella pretty quickly ...

I'm giving Big Ben two more seasons ... 2017 an 2018 ... after which he will surely walk away ...

Throw on that Tomlin is a complete coaching buffoon who will find every way deemed perfectly acceptable to squander Steelers playoff seedings, home field advantage, must-win games and "should win" games ... and Big Ben will lose patience by that time and eagerly hang it up ...

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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Krunch
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#3
04-26-2017, 03:44 AM

Lake - you forgot still ignoring his anemic Defensive Backfield....

I'm pretty much in step with your thoughts on Ben being tired of being frustrated to death.


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SteelAHoosier
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#4
04-26-2017, 07:26 AM

Hate to say it, but Lake is likely correct. Of course, I am under the influence of vodka and prescription drugs.
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Rollers
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#5
04-26-2017, 10:05 PM

(04-26-2017, 03:30 AM)The Lakelander Wrote: I have an alternative viewpoint on this ... Big Ben, remember, had a devastating motorcycle crash as a young man, and has suffered/played through multiple injuries. That all catches up to a mid-30's fella pretty quickly ...

I'm giving Big Ben two more seasons ... 2017 an 2018 ... after which he will surely walk away ...

Throw on that Tomlin is a complete coaching buffoon who will find every way deemed perfectly acceptable to squander Steelers playoff seedings, home field advantage, must-win games and "should win" games ... and Big Ben will lose patience by that time and eagerly hang it up ...

I tried another chat board but got tired of it.  Dare to criticize Tomlin and you were really excoriated.  I don't get all the losses to teams that were horrible until they played us.  Coaching HAS to have something to do with that.  And as much as I think Ben is a big time QB he has played awful at times when the marbles were on the table.  Refusing to check down to a sneak on the one yard line is a GREAT example.  As much as Ben has been the one person that has made us competitive over the years he can suck badly when it comes time for him to shoulder the load and just win the game.  I suppose I'll get killed for this post but I'm used to it. There is something off about this team when it comes to games we should win.  In my mind we need new ideas on defense.  We need the OC to stop calling stupid plays in the red zone.  Not sure where the problem is exactly but Tomlin HAS to shoulder some of this.  He has been horrible at managing games.  I would not call him a buffoon but he and his staff just seem unable to push this team over the top
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McSteeler
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#6
04-26-2017, 10:20 PM

No matter how long he is or isn't here let's see how many decades they drag their feet putting him the HOF.




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dbsfgyd1
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#7
04-26-2017, 11:23 PM

OK, enough of the Tomlin bashing. You all don't know what a bad coach looks like.

See my avatar? That is a pic of the 1968 Steelers. The second worst team in the history of the franchise. I chose it for the express purpose to remind you all what a truly bad coach can do to a team.  

Contrary to the conventional wisdom here on this board, Tomlin is undoubtedly in the top five of all coaches in the NFL, and mark my words, Hall bound with one more Super Bowl win. No doubt Beli and the guy in Seattle are the top two, but who else? Reid? Harbaugh? Anyone else leaps to mind?

10 + years? Yep. Losing seasons? None. Super Bowls? Yep. 100+ wins? Yep. Complete rebuild of a team into a championship contender? Yep. Ever see his teams play worse at the end of a year that at the beginning? No. Which is interesting because one of his best traits is dealing with players that have gone down.

Look at last year for instance. No Bell for three games, no #2 WR, lost best DL for most of the year, Didn't have number one OLB for most of the year, started 3 rookies on defense most of the year, and turned it into an 11-5 season and ended up two bad offensive quarters from a Superbowl? Bad coaching my *ss!

If this isn't enough proof, sign up for NFL Game Pass. Go back and look at games from 2011 and 2012. Then compare it to what this team looked like going down the stretch last year. Better yet,  watch some games from each year until now. The progress from year to year has been incredible, and it doesn't happen unless there is some great coaching going on.

And speaking about 1968, which was ground zero for building the first Steeler Dynasty, where Noll had a distinct advantage of drafting in the top ten picks for several years ( Not to mention  Bill Nunn who had the inside skinny on players from small black colleges for a scout) , Tomlin, hasn't had the same opportunities to land a Joe Greene, Bradshaw, or even a Big Ben. That what happens when you don't have a LOSER for a coach.

Warts? Yep. Weekly head scratchers? Yep. Stale Boiler Plate comments? Yep, in spades.

Unfortunately for you all,  he's only in his mid 40s and is going to be around a while. So if your not in the market for a d*mn good coach with one of the best staffs in the league, go root for the browns. Every year you get the number one draft pick AND a new coach to complain about.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2017, 11:25 PM by dbsfgyd1.)
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The Lakelander
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#8
04-26-2017, 11:35 PM

It's OK DB ... we can disagree on Mike Tomlin. I still respect you as a nice guy and such.

Oh, and Bill Cowher went 13-3 one season with Kordell Stewart as his QB ... Tomlin squandered two of Big Ben's PEAK seasons back-to-back with 8-8 seasons ... But I refuse to argue with you about Tomlin's accomplishments.

For the record, Tomlin NEVER won 13 games ... with Big Ben at QB ...

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2017, 11:36 PM by The Lakelander.)
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Chucktownsteeler
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#9
04-27-2017, 12:22 AM

Bruce Arians comes to mind.
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dbsfgyd1
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#10
04-27-2017, 12:41 AM

(04-26-2017, 11:35 PM)The Lakelander Wrote: It's OK DB ... we can disagree on Mike Tomlin. I still respect you as a nice guy and such.

Oh, and Bill Cowher went 13-3 one season with Kordell Stewart as his QB ... Tomlin squandered two of Big Ben's PEAK seasons back-to-back with 8-8 seasons ... But I refuse to argue with you about Tomlin's accomplishments.

For the record, Tomlin NEVER won 13 games ... with Big Ben at QB ...

13-3 with  the 2nd best defense in the history of the NFL.... Did they show up last season? If you ask me ( and I acknowledge you didn't), 11-5 with that defense last year  was a significant accomplishment Roll .
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dbsfgyd1
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#11
04-27-2017, 12:52 AM

(04-27-2017, 12:22 AM)Chucktownsteeler Wrote: Bruce Arians comes to mind.

Thanks Chuck. Now I'll be sending the rest of my morning cleaning coffee out of my notebook. Seriously, wake me up when he hits 100 wins. BTW, what was their playoff record last season? Oh, that's right, kind of hard to get to the dance with 8 losses and a tie....but the cheerleaders are smoking....
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The Lakelander
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#12
04-27-2017, 12:58 AM

(04-27-2017, 12:41 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: 13-3 with  the 2nd best defense in the history of the NFL.... Did they show up last season? If you ask me ( and I acknowledge you didn't), 11-5 with that defense last year  was a significant accomplishment Roll .

That's the rub against Tomlin DB ... His fan base accepts marginality as the new norm ... 11-5 FAILED to gain home field advantage ... Losing to New England in PITTSBURGH in October was a precursor to losing to New England in FOXBORO in January ... But the raw raw Tomlin lovers dismiss such simple realities ... He failed to put an O-Line in front of Ben for 4 seasons when he took over the team ... then he failed to put together any semblance of a world class defense over the next four seasons ... In my lifetime, the Steelers always had top-tier defenses. ... Without Big Ben keeping things above water, whom Tomlin has squandered his most productive seasons, Mike Tomlin would be dismissed as average ... 

I'm set in stone regarding my views on Mike Tomlin and I won't gain any ground arguing my case here. It's not worth my aggravation. I'm stuck watching a Tomlin coached Steelers team, and thankfully, I'm in a 2500 strong support group of recovering Steelers junkies who have ALL had enough of the bad Tomlin drug ...

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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dbsfgyd1
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#13
04-27-2017, 05:07 AM

(04-27-2017, 12:58 AM)The Lakelander Wrote:
(04-27-2017, 12:41 AM)dbsfgyd1 Wrote: 13-3 with  the 2nd best defense in the history of the NFL.... Did they show up last season? If you ask me ( and I acknowledge you didn't), 11-5 with that defense last year  was a significant accomplishment Roll .

That's the rub against Tomlin DB ... His fan base accepts marginality as the new norm ... 11-5 FAILED to gain home field advantage ... Losing to New England in PITTSBURGH in October was a precursor to losing to New England in FOXBORO in January ... But the raw raw Tomlin lovers dismiss such simple realities ... He failed to put an O-Line in front of Ben for 4 seasons when he took over the team ... then he failed to put together any semblance of a world class defense over the next four seasons ... In my lifetime, the Steelers always had top-tier defenses. ... Without Big Ben keeping things above water, whom Tomlin has squandered his most productive seasons, Mike Tomlin would be dismissed as average ... 

I'm set in stone regarding my views on Mike Tomlin and I won't gain any ground arguing my case here. It's not worth my aggravation. I'm stuck watching a Tomlin coached Steelers team, and thankfully, I'm in a 2500 strong support group of recovering Steelers junkies who have ALL had enough of the bad Tomlin drug ...

Support group!! LOL!! So Tomlin does the drafts? Humm, that's kind of like saying the President passes the federal budget....Input yes, but Colbert is the guy that pulls the trigger. 2006-2010 was an aging team that had more leaks than the Titanic. There were some drafts were we didn't net anybody, like 2008 for instance. I think for a better read on Tomlin, look at how he's building the team, from 2011 on. As for drafting offensive lineman ten years ago, I'm not exactly sure BA would know what to do with one if he would have had one, let alone 5. You know, now that you mention it, Tomlin WAS a stinking fool for the Arians hiring. Maybe you got something there after-all Lake. What's the number for that group?
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The Lakelander
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#14
04-27-2017, 05:23 AM

Facebook ... "FIRE MIKE TOMLIN" ... public group ... 2,659 members strong ... and growing ... I'm a lifer, meaning I'm there until Tomlin's finally GONE !!!  Wavehello

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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The Lakelander
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#15
04-27-2017, 05:30 AM

Look at how he's building the team ??? ... Our premier edge rusher is now 38 years old. He should have been displaced in the lineup THREE seasons ago ... wait ... Tomlin TRIED to displace him ... with Jarvis Ziggy Moats ...

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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dbsfgyd1
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#16
04-27-2017, 06:38 AM

(04-27-2017, 05:30 AM)The Lakelander Wrote: Look at how he's building the team ??? ... Our premier edge rusher is now 38 years old. He should have been displaced in the lineup THREE seasons ago ... wait ... Tomlin TRIED to displace him ... with Jarvis Ziggy Moats ...

Actually, J.Jones, a first rounder no less, never, never, ever should have been drafted, and agreed, the reason we are playing Mathusla at ROLB. I gladly agree with you on that one. Might have been the worst miscalculation of the Collbert era, well ok, no brass bands for the entire 2008 class too.

As for building the team, go back and look at the 2011-2012 teams on NFL Game pass.  If you don't subscribe, I'll gladly pass on my log on credentials. Just look at some of the games we won. Don't look at the ones we lost or were blown out, just the victories. It is extremely painful to watch. Then,  honestly ask yourself, how did we get from that train wreck, to today?? A total influx of talent, most of which was not job ready when drafted, which means??

Hey look Lake, I'm not trying to make a believer out of anybody here. I'm almost bald during the regular season from scratching my head too. I certainly I have enough respect for you and your opinions,  but IMO just don't think he's as awful as he is made out to be. I honestly believe  when he is done historically he's going to be noted as one of the better coaches in the history of the NFL.
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The Lakelander
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#17
04-27-2017, 07:03 AM

No he's not entirely awful ... he'd have been gone already. But he's marginal in a lot of areas, and over the years those matters have become glaring to a sizeable contingent of diehards. Evidently not to the Steelers front office, but one has to wonder how long Tomlin's window remains open from here ... Once Ben retires we may find the team back in the late '80's dark ages ...

He's a "player's coach" ... so was Noll if I recall ... (*sarcasm ON*) ...

I'm no fan. Started out that way, but then reality trumped and my Steelers goggles fogged ...

A good draft this year and some good fortune healthwise might have Pittsburgh playing for a Lombardi ... that and a sentimental NFL league office (regarding Dan Rooney) ... it'll be an interesting season for sure ...

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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Rollers
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#18
04-27-2017, 07:46 AM

I would not put Tomlin in the top 10 of anything. Sorry. Horrible game manager.
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dbsfgyd1
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#19
04-27-2017, 09:47 AM

(04-27-2017, 07:46 AM)Rollers Wrote: I would not put Tomlin in the top 10 of anything.  Sorry.  Horrible game manager.

I can think of another lousy game manager in the the name of Charles Henry Noll, but I understand where you are coming from. I really like the Harbaugh brothers on that game management point. Those two rarely miss a trick, with the exception of last Christmas day. John totally screwed the pooch at the end. Of course, how was he to know that his lunkheaded fullback would score on that play instead of taking a dive..
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dbsfgyd1
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#20
04-27-2017, 09:50 AM

(04-27-2017, 07:03 AM)The Lakelander Wrote: No he's not entirely awful ... he'd have been gone already. But he's marginal in a lot of areas, and over the years those matters have become glaring to a sizeable contingent of diehards. Evidently not to the Steelers front office, but one has to wonder how long Tomlin's window remains open from here ... Once Ben retires we may find the team back in the late '80's dark ages ...

He's a "player's coach" ... so was Noll if I recall ... (*sarcasm ON*) ...

I'm no fan. Started out that way, but then reality trumped and my Steelers goggles fogged ...

A good draft this year and some good fortune healthwise might have Pittsburgh playing for a Lombardi ... that and a sentimental NFL league office (regarding Dan Rooney) ... it'll be an interesting season for sure ...

For sure he isn't perfect. How about Andy Reid? Better? Worse? More of the same? How about some young guys? Anybody there?
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mcmillenandwife
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#21
04-27-2017, 09:52 AM

Tomlin Haters = Spoiled Rotten Fans.  Eyes

The Rooney's deserve HUGE kudos for their outstanding coaching hires over the last 48 years. Only three hires, all of whom have been regarded among the top in their profession, all of whom have won Super at least one Super Bowl and all of whom have been to multiple Super Bowls. How many other teams can say that??? 

I don't agree with everything he does. I don't understand some of the decisions he makes. I often find myself screaming at him through the TV screen. But the guy has us in contention year in and year out. He's doing a lot of things right. No coach is perfect. They all make mistakes. Otherwise, with the talent Noll had from '72 - '80, how did we not win 6 or 7 Super Bowls in a row?

The problem with "haters" is they're one-trick ponies. EVERYTHING is wrong, nothing is ever good enough. Victories are downplayed, smart decisions are minimized and mistakes are trumped up. It's like watching the majority of the media cover President Trump. It doesn't matter what the guy does... they're going to cast him in a negative light because they hate him. They're blinded by it and it's they only lens through which they can view him.

There were Cowher haters, too. Lots of 'em. I'm sure there were Noll haters as well, especially near the end of his coaching career.

Whatever. I like Tomlin and think he's done a damn good job for the most part. Imperfect... but good enough to bring home multiple Lombardi's IMO.
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Rollers
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#22
04-27-2017, 10:00 AM

I respectfully disagree Tim. It's not about hating Tomlin. NOt at all. It's about how he manages this team in games we should win and in games we need to win. I don't see that in him. Good? Yeah he's good. Takes someone great though to win multiple super bowls. I just don't see that in him and this staff. Running off tackle on the 1/2 yard line when you got one of the biggest QBs in the game. Come on. I just don't think he's that great. I'm sure he's a wonderful man and all that but I don't think he and his staff have the ability to get this team ready to play in every situation.
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mcmillenandwife
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#23
04-27-2017, 10:38 AM

(04-27-2017, 10:00 AM)Rollers Wrote: I respectfully disagree Tim.  It's not about hating Tomlin.  NOt at all.  It's about how he manages this team in games we should win and in games we need to win.  I don't see that in him.  Good?  Yeah he's good.  Takes someone great though to win multiple super bowls.  I just don't see that in him and this staff.  Running off tackle on the 1/2 yard line when you got one of the biggest QBs in the game.  Come on.  I just don't think he's that great.  I'm sure he's a wonderful man and all that but I don't think he and his staff have the ability to get this team ready to play in every situation.

Sounds like maybe you don't fall into the hater category, Rollers. A critic and a skeptic, yes. The difference is that a critic/skeptic will have a change of heart if proven wrong while a hater will contend that the Steelers won in spite of Tomlin.

I firmly believe Tomlin is going to bring home another Lombardi with Ben... almost to the point of certainty. I can feel it; we're right there. 

Does a second Super Bowl victory get the monkey off Tomlin's back in your mind?
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dbsfgyd1
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#24
04-27-2017, 10:39 AM

(04-27-2017, 09:52 AM)mcmillenandwife Wrote: Tomlin Haters = Spoiled Rotten Fans.  Eyes

The Rooney's deserve HUGE kudos for their outstanding coaching hires over the last 48 years. Only three hires, all of whom have been regarded among the top in their profession, all of whom have won Super at least one Super Bowl and all of whom have been to multiple Super Bowls. How many other teams can say that??? 

I don't agree with everything he does. I don't understand some of the decisions he makes. I often find myself screaming at him through the TV screen. But the guy has us in contention year in and year out. He's doing a lot of things right. No coach is perfect. They all make mistakes. Otherwise, with the talent Noll had from '72 - '80, how did we not win 6 or 7 Super Bowls in a row?

The problem with "haters" is they're one-trick ponies. EVERYTHING is wrong, nothing is ever good enough. Victories are downplayed, smart decisions are minimized and mistakes are trumped up. It's like watching the majority of the media cover President Trump. It doesn't matter what the guy does... they're going to cast him in a negative light because they hate him. They're blinded by it and it's they only lens through which they can view him.

There were Cowher haters, too. Lots of 'em. I'm sure there were Noll haters as well, especially near the end of his coaching career.

Whatever. I like Tomlin and think he's done a damn good job for the most part. Imperfect... but good enough to bring home multiple Lombardi's IMO.
Thanks Tim. I think Tomlin has done a phonominal job inheriting an aging team, squeezing one last  Superbowl win out of them,  and prodding them on to another appearance, then rebuilding it without a losing season, and with draft picks starting at 20 plus. Back in the late 2000 decade, it's easy to forget we were in cap hell, having offered 3 tackles a game Lamar Woodley, $65 million dollars, and $20+ million to Wille ( If I'm playing, I'm either false stating, or holding) Colon to be on perpetual IR, not to mention Ben's $100 million at the end of the decade.
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The Lakelander
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#25
04-27-2017, 11:21 AM

Sleep Sleep Sleep

That said, Tomlin Lovers = Raw-Raw Steelers apologists who see things through rose colored Rooney glasses and can't stand back far enough and long enough to have a well informed criticism of the failures of Mike Tomlin or the Steelers organization. They're always "in your face" protectors of everything Rooney and they couldn't smell the pile of shit in front of them if they stepped right into it ... 

Rockon
You see, to generalize the way you just did about "Tomlin Haters" is so off base that it's silly ... 

2,600 members strong is a pretty significant group of Steelers fans ... many of them are season ticket holders who ADORE the Pittsburgh Steelers even more so than you or I ... Most of these guys know football inside and out and they are simply calling a spade a spade. They aren't hating just to hate, because every one of them are as passionate about wanting the Steelers to win as any of us here are ... They've all just taken off their rose colored glasses to see more clearly the product in front of them and to recognize where the mechanism keeps fracturing year-in and year-out ... 

Spoiled rotten fans? ... Really? ... 4 of the last 5 Super Bowl Champs came out of the AFC and NONE of them came through Pittsburgh on their way to hoisting the Lombardi Trophy ... it's as though Big Ben Roethlisberger is invisible ... in the PRIME of his career !!! Spoiled my ASS !!!  

Tomlin has NO EXCUSES this season ... NONE !!! The Pittsburgh Steelers have:

1. One of the top 5 QB's in the league presently and a 2 time Super Bowl winner ... and a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame 
2. Arguably one of the two best RB's in the NFL in his peak career time ... a real threat
3. Arguably one of the two best WR's in the NFL also in HIS career peak time ... sickly talented  
4. A veteran and cohesive offensive line 
5. Plenty of player depth on offense and highly capable supporting role players 
6. A young, fast, hungry, and veteran led defense built with FIVE (5) 1st Round picks, THREE (3) second round picks, and a 3rd round pick

It's time for Tomlin to put up or shut up ... it's entirely HIS team ... HE has no more excuses Pi_hippie

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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The Lakelander
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#26
04-27-2017, 11:28 AM

Tomlin haters rarely have to make their case. The apologists are more than capable of doing so all on their own  Laugh

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
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The Lakelander
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#27
04-27-2017, 11:31 AM

Let me rephrase that ...

Tomlin has NO EXCUSES this season ... NONE !!! The Pittsburgh Steelers organization has PROVIDED Mike Tomlin with:

1. One of the top 5 QB's in the league presently and a 2 time Super Bowl winner ... and a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame 
2. Arguably one of the two best RB's in the NFL in his peak career time ... a real threat
3. Arguably one of the two best WR's in the NFL also in HIS career peak time ... sickly talented  
4. A veteran and cohesive offensive line 
5. Plenty of player depth on offense and highly capable supporting role players 
6. A young, fast, hungry, and veteran led defense built with FIVE (5) 1st Round picks, THREE (3) second round picks, and a 3rd round pick

Why do I say it this way? ... Because the Tomlin apologists blame every one of Tomlin's failed draft picks on Colbert ... so it goes to say Tomlin has NOTHING to do with the team the organization has provided for him THIS year ...

Big Grin Super Bowl or Bust !!! ... (I'm guessing "Bust") ... but hey ... 
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2017, 11:32 AM by The Lakelander.)
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SteelAHoosier
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#28
04-27-2017, 11:51 AM

(04-26-2017, 11:35 PM)The Lakelander Wrote: It's OK DB ... we can disagree on Mike Tomlin. I still respect you as a nice guy and such.

Oh, and Bill Cowher went 13-3 one season with Kordell Stewart as his QB ... Tomlin squandered two of Big Ben's PEAK seasons back-to-back with 8-8 seasons ... But I refuse to argue with you about Tomlin's accomplishments.

For the record, Tomlin NEVER won 13 games ... with Big Ben at QB ...

Dance
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SteelAHoosier
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#29
04-27-2017, 11:54 AM

Jarvis Ziggy Moats. LOL
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